Every once in a while a change can mean a way to advance, or even just a way to maintain what we have.
I have been on these MR forums for just about eleven years now, and the last six or so saw quite a few lamentations that the threads here tend to be geared for newbies. They are therefore repetitive in nature, and few of us get much new from them once we have waded through a dozen or more.
What if…suppose…we could convince our hosts to have a sub-forum under the MR family that addressed strictly advanced hobby techniques? Scratchbuilding, weathering, how to modify coupler pockets, repairs to screw mounts, applying brass details to denuded generic locomotive or rolling stock bodies, advanced photography…the list goes on.
It won’t take off like a lit fuse. It will require some caretakers who are willing to supply some time and some experience, and to type it out and post it. If we launch such a sub-forum, it might eventually become a great resource and meeting place, both for our hosts and for us, the modellers. Or, it might just be a thud.
I disagree with your basic assumption that the newbie questions are somehow “weeds” that are preventing the “flowers” from growing. The advanced topics get discussed regularly and there is no significant clutter of newbie material that prevents me from finding them.
There is an interesting thread going on painting. One on double-deck benchwork. One on bridge building. Not long ago there was the scratchbuilt boxcab thread. Many non-newbie discussions over in the Electronics & DCC section… All in all, far more “advanced” content than you find in any of the magazines.
Besides, how do you propose to control access to your new advanced forum? Will we have to take a test? Present ideas to a selection committee and hope not to be blackballed?
Besides, if the newbie questions are so uninteresting, why do so many folks reply with the same answer that’s already been posted 5 times?
But, at the same time, there’s plenty that aren’t beginners and would like to get the more advanced education. The heavier duty topics do get a bit lost in the shuffle.
Perhaps Kalmbach could introduce some sort of flag that the OP could attach to the thread indicating that the topic is of an advanced nature. They could also establish a rule that would prevent members from posting any comments to the effect that the topic does not deserve an advanced designation in order to minimize the number of fire fights.
Agreed…I seen it too but,the issue was caused by those members that felt threaten by advanced modeling subjects and that old “its my layout!” was their battle cry…
Why didn’t they just ignore the topic if advanced modeling/operation/ kitbashing wasn’t their thing? That was a good solid forum but,its long gone since 2003 IIRC…
Wanting to change things is great, but some things will never change. People will ask the same question that was already asked 20 times in the past 10 years because they don’t use the search - heck if they used search, they could search Google and find their answer, either via a link to the old thread here, or some other source of information. Can’t fight it, might as well join and just post an answer, even though you may have posted the same answer 5 times in the past. It’s not worth it to try to tell people to do a quick search, especially if the question is something that you as a veteran can answer right off the top of your head. Not really worth the bad feelings it sometimes causes since we are communicating in a medium that really does not allow emotional intent to carry through.
Not going to stop people from dredging up 5 year old threads and making a new reply, either. So don’t bother trying. Though to be honest it would probably be useful if topics older than a year or two would become locked to prevent further reply. Some of us may have been here forever and continue to read the forums, but someone who started a topic 5 years ago may be long gone, so providing a reply might be nice in the spirit of trying to help out, but chances of the OP ever seeing your reply after 5 years are slim to none. I see the argument sometimes made that if the old threada are open, people will use them instead of starting a new one asking the same question for the umpteenth time (see above). Not too likely.
Even the print magaines go back and revist the same topics from tiem to time - just because there are X readers who have been subscribers for 10+ years, there are also Y people who have just picked up their first issue and want to know what this hobby is all about. If every issue had only advanced topics, how would a newbie ever learn? They’d drop the subscription and find a source that did offer beginner help. Likewise, if all the magazine did was offer b
As one of the NEWBIES here, I would like to point out that these forums were started to share knowledge and passion for the hobby. You aren’t required to read every post.
i’ve been wondering why we don’t see well known modelers and authors posting on these forums. I assume they don’t have the time, or see anything of interest. (presumably they aren’t inclined to provide free advice when they can write a book). I’ve noticed the same on other forums such as model sailplanes.
i’ve found my interest in most threads this year waning because they don’t interest me and even if I can contribute, others have done so already. So now I quickly scan the forums for threads that interest me, that I can learn from. Few have interested me in the last half year.
there’s nothing impeding well written posts on any topics, instead of simple how-do-i-do this type of thread. One thing that disuades me from reading a thread is a poor subject line (e.g. help?), usually indicating a newbie.
And I see no reason why one of these threads cannot cover an advanced technical topic with data, equations and graphics that could make a good magazine article or even an NMRA RP.
If you start a well thought out and well written thread on an any topic, it will be read and the more thoughful responses appreciated (while the less thoughtful will be ignored).
Personally, one of the reasons I like these forums is the light touch Kalmbach’s moderators apply. Other than weeding out the somewhat nasty threads on certain topics and reining in threads that get too vitupric they let us go.
To have an “advanced” only forum would require a heavy hand on threads and replies to keep it pure - so to speak. This would signifcantly change the tenor of the forums.
Plus MR puts a lot of effort into helping folks get started in this hobby. And they are the most successful model railroading magazine going. So covering beginner issues is probably what most folks want and need.
Of course you can go ahead and start an advanced topic thread. But I notice these peter out pretty fast and fall off the first page due to lack of responses.
And how many times do we ‘experts’ pick up somethng new or useful from coments in a newbee post? There are some good comments for all in many, as well as just another way of doing something. My [2c]
I’m not adverse to the idea of creating a sub forum though I’d like Crandell to expand on his thoughts as I can see it could require a lot of work, and in this age of instant gratification perhaps it would be just too much effort for some, It would be also of interest how ones contributions would be evaluated as being suitable.
Having been around the forums far longer than me, Rob and Larrys comments about elitism are of some concern, but then I detest the modern way of having to constantly lower things to suit the lowest common denominator all the time. (Must stop now before I go into a full blown frothing-at-the-mouth rant).[:(!]
I see nothing in the proposal to scrap how the forum currently operates and personally I find trying to help newbies helps grow my own knowledge base, though it can get a bit old hat especially if the topic was covered in depth 2 pages back, so something new may just perk the place up a bit.
[2c]
Cheers, the Bear.[:)]
I do a lot of presentations in my day job. Even on a topic I’ve presented dozens of times myself, I still find value in watching another’s presentation on the same subject. I may not learn anything new about the topic, but I often learn a better way to present it or a better way to answer a common question.
I think reading others posts to newbie questions can have the same value. How many times have you tried to explain the hobby to a non-modeler visiting? Ever wish you could think of a better way to get your points across?
Perhaps Carl has distilled down some of the essence of the OP’s disatisfaction.
It may be natural for more experienced or mature model hobbyists to find noobie topics or participation to be distracting or perhaps even annoying? Lets be realistic, these forum are unlikely to change significantly to mitigate those things so as is usually the case, it’s up to individuals to find ways to improve their forum experience to be more satisfying to them.
How? I suppose the first rule to remember is (e.g.) it may be a bit like looking for the perfect church. As soon as you find it and join it, it’s no longer perfect because usually we all bring our own worts and baggage along with us. Moral of the story, there is no perfect forum.
That said, there are forums out there that may cater more to our interests that others. I’ve perused the web and found a number of forums and after reading them long enough, found that some really weren’t for me while others were more satisfying in terms of content and discussion. I’ve settled on several forums which I go to the most related to the hobby and there are a few others which I visit less often to the degree that I find them interesting or beneficial to me. That is probably the best anyone can do. Like anything else, if one isn’t happy or satisfied, it’s best to take steps to resolve it - which may mean possibly stepping away from an activity which ends up being a frustrating experience.
[philosopher hat] I used to be a moderator on a gaming forum of a MMORPG that I used to play -