Is more or less wheels better? Since it seems fairly universal to minimally have to swap out the plastic wheels for metal ones on the IHC Passenger cars (weight and other conversions I believe have been well covered in other threads), I’m wondering if there is any advantage to having the extra wheels? Its obviously extra cost in more wheels. Is there any stability or rolling advantage to the extra wheels or is it just more wheels to try to get right to make the car roll correctly?
(EDIT: Just to clarify, I’m interested in rolling or stablity advantage in use on a modeling track, not necessarily in real life. Thanks for any input.)
Usually passenger cars with 6 wheel trucks are older ‘heavyweight’ cars, or are something really heavy like the ATSF full length dome cas or El Capitan dinners. Many railroads felt that the ‘ride’ was better with the 6 wheel trucks. Those older Pullman cars has ‘concrete’ floors for a smooth/quiet ride!
Understandable nfmisso, but I’m a newbie and not a rivet counter, yet. For me I’m trying to make a few usable, yet economical passenger trains. I’m not planning on converting 6-wheel heavyweights to 4 wheels or anything like that, but I may change my initial purchase to 4-wheel passenger cars if that is a better choice. I’m betting the new, in package IHC heavyweights shells aren’t really an ounce heavier than a corrugated.
Number of wheels for the prototype was for weight distribution.
Plastic models are much lighter. In IHC’s case much much lighter. IHC’s metal trucks not only improve rolling, but are superior’trackers’ due to their unsprung weight, not the number of wheels.
Don’t install 4 wheel trucks on your heavyweights. Eventually like all of us, you will become more of a “Rivet Counter” and want your trains to look more realistic.
One option you have is to only replace the outboard wheelsets on each 6 wheel truck. No one will ever see that it is missing.
This is cheaper and allows for better tracking on bad track. And whenver you feel like it you can install the missing wheelset.
If you get IHC metal trucks AND wheelsets, there goes most any savings you got for not buying Walthers or Branchline cars to start with. I have the original plastic trucks with Intermountain metal wheelsets in them and they work well IMO. I can’t remember if 36" wheels (more or less standard passenger wheel size) clear the brakes or not on IHC cars. I know on the older Rivarossi and Bachmann cars you needed to go with 33" wheels or file the brakes, since they came with small wheels with big flanges.
I am not aware of any advantage or disadvantage of four or six wheel trucks in the model world, other than faithfulness to the protypes.
Thanks guys. I like the idea of upgrading to metal wheels and experimenting and leaving a few out. This should definitively tell me if 6, 4, or even just the outer 2 is best for tracking and stability. As long as I leave the original trucks they should still appear to have the same prototypical number of wheels, right? I’ll post my results if I get any interesting results once I get everything together.
If you run 18" radius or #4 turnouts, 4 wheel trucks are less likely to derail. As previously mentioned, you could remove the center set of wheels from a six wheel truck, it would look more like the prototype & have the tracking advantage of a 4 wheel truck, but as also previously stated, buy Walthers, Branchline, or even better Rapido cars. By the time you finnish upgrading the IHC cars you have paid the price of the better cars!![:D]
Three axle, 6 wheel trucks usually run close gauge on the center wheels to handle tight turns, if you have those. One axle, 2 wheels probably isn’t going to work too swift because the truck mounting pins are not centered on the trucks, if I remember right. With only one wheelset the truck is going to want to pitch up or down.
My advice would be to run the number of wheels the trucks were designed for. If there was some big advantage someone would have found it way before now.
Once you add Intermountain wheels, a few details, and paint those AWFUL interior colors, I don’t think IHCs are that bad, BUT I only have used them for some Pullman Green 1920s heavyweights. I have not added any weight; the Intermountain wheels may have lessened the need for that, and that’s good too because the Athearn Genesis Pacific that pulls them is not noted as a heavy hauler. I redecalled and repainted them, but I got them for $6, so I am not displeased. I can’t speak to them with fancy paint jobs. With KDs, diaphragms, interiors, custom VGN decals, Intermountains, and a few other goodies, I figure I have about $22 in each car, and that’s a lot less than Branchline or Walthers, and I would have had to paint and redecal them too.
I picked up a couple IHC Heavyweights from ebay for $5 each. I’m figuring adding Intermountain Metal wheels ($8), McHenry #52 couplers ($4), some weight if needed, and perhaps some interiors ($5 each) to complete my first conversion effort. Hope for smooth tracking (priceless). All told should be about $16 each for a start. I haven’t received any of the materials yet, but I’m already trying to plan my next purchase if it works. Doh, I’m doomed.
You know, I’ve always wondered about that claim (having heard it many times before.) You see, I have a string of a dozen or or so Rivarossi (AHM) heavyweights (approx 38 years old) lettered for the Pennsy that I used to haul behind my Penn Line/Bowser K4s. I replaced all of the small wheelsets with Kadee 36" wheelsets, and not only did I not have to fiddle with the brake shoes, but they were (and still are) among the easiest-rolling cars I’ve ever seen. Breathe on 'em, and they’ll roll 5-6 feet on level track. Don’t let 'em get away on a grade, though! [:D]
As to Tek34’s question: It doesn’t really matter, except in adherance to prototype, at least from a model operational standpoint. With decent track, either type, 4- or 6-wheel, will work fine. Be advised that in the prototype, most 4-wheel-truck passenger cars (non-streamlined) were on eastern roads, while 6 wheels prevailed in the West. Not to say, of course, that there was a hard-and-fast rule about it, but that’s the way it generally worked out. Major roads in the East, like the Pennsy and the New York Central, had really smooth and heavy trackwork, and so they could use 4-wheel trucks, while the western roads (e.g. ATSF, UP, SP) preferred the six-wheel cars which they felt gave a smoother ride.
gmcrail, I also have a couple of the really old Rivarossi cars, the first two I got as I recall, that the brakes did clear on, but the later ones even some of the 33" wheels required the brakes to be trimmed. I also found that on some cars the 36" wheels raised the car a noticeable amount, and since then have just stayed mostly with 33" wheels. I cannot “see” 3" difference as a stand alone, but I can see a car that sits higher in a consist.
I have also found the old Riv trucks to be excellent rollers, I think it must be the plastic they used.
I just remembered I have two boat tailed IHC 1930’s observations I am in the process of bashing a little to remove the rear roof light and big red whatever in the middle of the rear door area, and then repainting and redecalling. I do think I am going to have to add a little weight to those cars to make them operate smoothly.
