Both lines are very very busy. The crossing of the two lines (called Winston) is just out of view of Walton Park, which is a shame, as it would be a great place to watch trains.
Gabe
Gabe,
Just a few things on Litchfield- the NYC “branch” was their original main line alignment prior to 1904, the line remained until the 1960s until it was cut back to Hillsboro.
The cool thing about coming into Litchfield is that the IT, Wabash, Illinois Central and L&M all paralleled US 66 coming into town from Mt. Olive all the way to Winston interlocking on the south side of town. It doesn’t take much to wonder what that marvel looked like when the Wabash was double track and route 66 was still “America’s Road”!! Today only the single track NS is left there, with 66 now a county highway.
The Litchfield and Madison became a part of the CNW system in 1958- the Litchfield branch was abandoned in 1972- but a short stub remained out of DeCamp to serve a customer just north of Hwy 4. CNW never had regular service to Litchfield- but did operate to there a very short time.
I was racking my brain last night- and Litchfield kept coming up in my mind, I had it as a solid “candidate” for the list, but I could only come up with the 4 Class I’s, IT and the L&M. I don’t think the L&C ever came into Litchfield proper.
Great “Where Is It” - had me thinking!
Actually, the L&M proper did not come into Litchfield as well. I am told it picked up trackage rights just south of Winston on the old Burlington–although the L&M had a small yard in Litchfield. I am also told the L&M Mt. Olive-to-Litchfield branch was abandoned before 72–although this is by way of word-of-mouth–and service was kept to Mt. Olive until 72.
I am also told that in the late 40s the street car occassionally would have a box car behind it and deliver it to places in Litchfield and Mt. Olive. I grew up in Mt. Olive, and although I was born in 75, I can well remember drives to Litchfield. Some of my earliest train memories are seeing green IT diesels–which were using trackage rights on th
Gabe-
To be truthful in the last days of the L&M they didn’t even operate into Litchfield very often- it would be lucky to have an extra run up there once every other week or so. The coal mines that once made the line prosperous had long tapped out by the time the CNW took over. When CNW got it they continued the as-needed service for a short time, then embargoed the service past Mt. Olive. From the CNW info I have on the line- the official abandonment approval didn’t happen until 1972. I’ll double check my stuff and see if Mt. Olive-Winston was gone before then, my memory on that part may be wrong. The DeCamp stub survived until 1989.
As for the IT trains on the IC, those were actually the only things running on that line after 1972. Late in that year after IC got GMO, they shifted all their St. Louis-Chicago traffic to the old GMO, leaving the IT trains as the only thing left running from Mont (east of Glen Carbon where IT’s Troy and Eastern crossed over the IC) to Springfield. It think in 1980 the IT trains then also shifted to the old GMO, leaving the IC vacant and unused south of Farmersville (Crown II coal mine).
Winston was an absolute mess of tracks in it’s heydey- there isn’t much left at the site today. I have a map somewhere showing the track layouts of how the lines all came together and crossed. There used to be an old access road that drove back to the tower site that ran behind the park- but even in the late 80’s this road was in real sorry shape- I don’t even know if it still exists, it ran along the BN tracks to the site. On the way down there used to be a half tipped over IC signal, uprooted from the ground base and all.
I guess I have the mistaken opinion that Winston was part of Litchfield city limits- albiet a seperate interlocking station (much like how LeClaire interlocking was in Edwardsville, but a seperate station on the railroad)- whereas the L&C’s junction was outside of Litchfield by a good portion, therefore having no true physical p
[quote user=“nordique72”]
Gabe-
To be truthful in the last days of the L&M they didn’t even operate into Litchfield very often- it would be lucky to have an extra run up there once every other week or so. The coal mines that once made the line prosperous had long tapped out by the time the CNW took over. When CNW got it they continued the as-needed service for a short time, then embargoed the service past Mt. Olive. From the CNW info I have on the line- the official abandonment approval didn’t happen until 1972. I’ll double check my stuff and see if Mt. Olive-Winston was gone before then, my memory on that part may be wrong. The DeCamp stub survived until 1989.
As for the IT trains on the IC, those were actually the only things running on that line after 1972. Late in that year after IC got GMO, they shifted all their St. Louis-Chicago traffic to the old GMO, leaving the IT trains as the only thing left running from Mont (east of Glen Carbon where IT’s Troy and Eastern crossed over the IC) to Springfield. It think in 1980 the IT trains then also shifted to the old GMO, leaving the IC vacant and unused south of Farmersville (Crown II coal mine).
Winston was an absolute mess of tracks in it’s heydey- there isn’t much left at the site today. I have a map somewhere showing the track layouts of how the lines all came together and crossed. There used to be an old access road that drove back to the tower site that ran behind the park- but even in the late 80’s this road was in real sorry shape- I don’t even know if it still exists, it ran along the BN tracks to the site. On the way down there used to be a half tipped over IC signal, uprooted from the ground base and all.
I guess I have the mistaken opinion that Winston was part of Litchfield city limits- albiet a seperate interlocking station (much like how LeClaire interlocking was in Edwardsville, but a seperate station on the railroad)- whereas the L&C’s junction was outside of Litchfield by a good portion, therefor
Gabe,
I enjoy the reminiscing that comes about from these “Where is it?” threads- I am always learning new nuances about the railroads mentioned and peoples memories of them.
My dad has a video of old Central Illinois railroading he bought at a swap meet in Tuscola some years ago- it shows IT street running in Gillespie, and shots of L&M and CB&Q trains at Winston in the steam era. I remember when the steel plant moved to the north side of Staunton- I can only ever remember seeing one gondola ever spotted at the old location- but I did take time to photograph the L&M switchstand that was on the spur leading into the plant. I do remember when the new plant opened up there on the north side- my dad was glad to see some old IT get reutilized in town.
CNW did run a lot of heavy trains on the SI in the older days- 5 GP7s/9s/18s lashed up was common until newer second generation power showed up. The SI was the first CNW district to be dieselized because of the heavy trains they ran there. Funny thing was the crews stopped at Gillespie, and had to tone up the dispatcher to have him give them the green- since the signals were set to favor NYC moves across the diamond. I imagine they must have hated that!
As for the IC, I guess it would make sense they would run an occasional local up the old main line… and storing autoracks on out of the way sidings and unused main lines isn’t unheard of (although 100+ may be a bit high!). My dad has a shot of a CNW local at Lodi, WI that had 50 empty autoracks on the rear which came out of storage in 1974. The old CNW main south of Wyeville, WI to Camp Douglas was used to store long strings of freight cars after it was severed in the late 80s- in 1996 I got shots of the MADWI shoving 111 surplus boxcars on to that segment. So maybe it’s not such a crazy story after all…[;)]
Gabe, have to nit-pick you a bit about the presence of either the Alton or the GM&O in Litchfield. In 1901, after a reorg and being returned to the bond holders, the ‘Quincy, Carrolton and St.Louis’ was operating independently and when trains reached the end of their track at Barnett Jct, they used the tracks of the Jacksonville Southeastern (also recently reorganised and later to become part of the CB&Q) to travel the final 6 miles to Litchfield.
More bad times came but Harriman saved it from liquidation and dumped it on the Chicago and Alton, one of the many roads (including the IC) he controlled. He also bought the St.Louis, Peoria and Northern that was comprised of parts of the old J&SE; this he split it at Springfield, giving the north part to the C&A and the south part to the IC.
The C&A was not running trains into Litchfield in the 1910 timetable; they terminated at Barnett Jct. The C&A was controlled at that time by the Toledo, St.Louis and Western which thought they might connect with the C&A through Barnett, but that did not come to pass. Strangely enough, this also occurred with the GM&O. Their furthest north rails were just south of the Eads Bridge in the old M&O Tolson Yard (Trendley Ave); and the Alton stopped just north of Eads Bridge.
The B&O bought the C&A at year’s end in 1930 and renamed it the Alton. Some time after that the tracks from Carlinville to Barnett were removed and trains from Carrolton turned north at Carlinville, terminating at Springfield. Still later the trains terminated at Carlinville. Before the GM&O bought the Alton in 1947, the tracks from Carrolton to Carlinville were removed. I hired out in 1947 and my 1946 Alton employees timetable has no tracks east of Carrolton. So GM&O didn’t have good access to Litchfield and I can’t find that the C&A ran trains to Litchfield, either.
[quote user=“artschlosser”]
Gabe, have to nit-pick you a bit about the presence of either the Alton or the GM&O in Litchfield. In 1901, after a reorg and being returned to the bond holders, the ‘Quincy, Carrolton and St.Louis’ was operating independently and when trains reached the end of their track at Barnett Jct, they used the tracks of the Jacksonville Southeastern (also recently reorganised and later to become part of the CB&Q) to travel the final 6 miles to Litchfield.
More bad times came but Harriman saved it from liquidation and dumped it on the Chicago and Alton, one of the many roads (including the IC) he controlled. He also bought the St.Louis, Peoria and Northern that was comprised of parts of the old J&SE; this he split it at Springfield, giving the north part to the C&A and the south part to the IC.
The C&A was not running trains into Litchfield in the 1910 timetable; they terminated at Barnett Jct. The C&A was controlled at that time by the Toledo, St.Louis and Western which thought they might connect with the C&A through Barnett, but that did not come to pass. Strangely enough, this also occurred with the GM&O. Their furthest north rails were just south of the Eads Bridge in the old M&O Tolson Yard (Trendley Ave); and the Alton stopped just north of Eads Bridge.
The B&O bought the C&A at year’s end in 1930 and renamed it the Alton. Some time after that the tracks from Carlinville to Barnett were removed and trains from Carrolton turned north at Carlinville, terminating at Springfield. Still later the trains terminated at Carlinville. Before the GM&O bought the Alton in 1947, the tracks from Carrolton to Carlinville were removed. I hired out in 1947 and my 1946 Alton employees timetable has no tracks east of Carrolton. So GM&O didn’t have good access to Litchfield and I can’t find that the C&A ran trains to
Gabe.
When I went out to Iowa to help my sister, her husband was very ill, I drove out of my way to visit towns I’d worked in during 47-52. I’d worked at Washington, Illinois where the ATSF branch left the TP&W and headed for Pekin, a place where I’d worked both the station and the tower. Super8 Motel maps are not up-to-date and the map of Washington showed the ATSF branch but not the Alton. I couldn’t even REMEMBER where the Alton station stood! I fared better in Pekin. All 3 roads (GM&O, P&E, and Santa Fe) were gone as was the tower; but the depot was still standing.
Unless issued by the railroad, I don’t trust maps for up-to-dateness. They seldom even have the current name of the railroads IF they show railroads.
The Official Guides are much more reliable but have found errors in them, too.
The 1938 Official Guide has approximately the same map as the 1946 Employee time table that I have. Employee timetables have the names of railroad lines that intersect at the various stations. Mine lists no railroad intersection at Carlinville but does list a branch at Carrolton. The '38 Guide, the '45 Guides, and the '46 ETT show that the only remnant of the Litchfield Carrolton and Western is a 20 mile branch going west from Carrolton to East Hardin. The GM&O came into being in 1940 when Tigrett merged the Mobile and Ohio into his Gulf Mobile and Northern, pretty much long after the existence of the LC&W. Although the GM&O officially took over the Alton in 1947, it was pulling the strings during '46.
Still fond of the Alton. Really splintered. The IC kept the J&C (Joliet & Chicago) when it spun off the rest of the Alton to the Chicago Missouri and Western; must have really needed Glen Yard. And then that road failed and the SP and Gateway Western divided the carcass. And now those roads are the UP and Kansas City Southern. My home town of Pontiac,