I’m curious. I know the price of oil has gone up, but per car “The 20th Century Limited” they plan to release is on average $20.00 more. Hiawatha cars retailed at $44.95. 20th Century cars will retail at at least $64.00. That’s a tremendous increase in price over a similiar equivalent product.
Do you feel they’re just taking advantage of a captive customer base?
I think it stinks of price gouging.
Your thoughts?
It’s price-gouging due to the increase of the price of oil (which is down by the way)
Most retailers, especially grocery stores, are commiting this fraud right now.
I get your frustration with the drastic price increase. But unlike oil, you don’t need to buy these cars in order to get you through life. Gasoline is something that most American need to get by for work, shopping, etc. Let Walthers know how you feel by not showing them your wallet or send them a letter. Just remember, you don’t need these cars.
I wish there was a good competetor for Walthers. Seems like the price of this hobby would drop if there were.
Did you see the Labor Department’s Producer Price Index numbers that came out yesterday? Gack. Biggest increase in 27 years.
These cars were announced for Summer 2009 delivery. That’s a long time away, and there is a lot of financial uncertainty over that interval. I think we can be safe in saying that a year from now, today’s Hiawatha prices will look like real bargains.
Several things are going to force prices up. First, the dollar has remained low, and the Fed appears to be holding interest rates down to keep the economy on “life support,” as one commentator on NPR said last night. The Fed’s actions will continue to make the dollar a less attractive currency. Second, wages in general in China are going up, as their economy modernizes. Overall world inflationary pressures are feeling the pinch of food costs, in particular. Third, plastic comes from oil, and we know where those prices are going.
So, I think Walthers is just pricing these things in accordance with their best estimates on cost, including what they got for bids from their Asian factories.
The yellow “UP” versions of the Hiawatha cars are retailing for $54.98 so apparently prices are increasing across the board. As I mentioned in a different post, model trains get hit twice by oil prices: one, the cost of shipping the models from China; and two, plastic is a petroleum-based product…so at least to some extent, models are affected both ways.
Plus it isn’t cheap to create a new model from scratch, especially nowadays where the slightest inaccuracy gets ragged on by the ‘experts’. I also suspect the new NYC cars will have factory-applied grabs, like their Superliner cars do now, which would add to the cost.
Bottom line is (as has been said above) it’s up to you. These special run trains (Super Chief, Empire Builder, etc.) are meant to target specific audiences. If you model New York Central in the forties or fifties these cars are a bargain compared to comparable brass cars. (Ask the guys around here who paid $2000 for a train of brass Hiawatha cars - which IIRC came without interiors.) If you don’t model NYC in that period, you probably wouldn’t be buying them even if they cost half as much…unless a key part of your hobby is collecting rather than modelling I guess??
I think Walthers prices in general are high unless they have something on sale. There are a number of online retailers who sell the same items at discount prices. I like First Place Hobbies (www.1stplacehobbies.com) - they have the entire Walthers catalog (plus some others like Athearn) but lower prices. I agree that the price increase on the 20th Century Limited cars is probably not justified.
That doesn’t sound like a good thing.
Brass has really gotten “hurt” by the weak dollar. A great many importers have postponed and/or cancelled projects because the pricese have soared. I was on a waiting list for the 1935 20th Century Limited at a cost of $3200.00. Before the project was cancelled the price had increased to over $5200.00 (!!!) for the set.
Folks:
Well, first of all, it’s not the cost of the plastic resin. Even at today’s prices, there’s maybe $2 worth in each of those cars. It could be increased shipping cost, but I doubt that would amount to more than $1 per car even now. Unfortunately, it’s easy for producers to relax their hold on price lines nowadays, because everybody knows oil is high at the moment, and not many people look up the cost/weight of plastic resins and multiply by the weight of the car, or figure roughly how many go into a container and divide the container transportation cost by that. Both of those would bring increases, but not nearly 50%; maybe 5%.
A bigger factor would probably be the falling dollar and increased production cost in China, where they’re probably made, but maybe Walthers doesn’t expect to sell as many of these as they did of the Hi, given the economic conditions. That last thing could be the biggest reason of all. On a relatively small run, a decrease in numbers could bring a big jump in price, as you try to pay back the tooling cost.
Maybe there was just a cost overrun from production problems, too.
Probably for the same reason the a wheel bearing for Cadillac costs seven times more than the very same part for a Chevy. Look at the name.
You mean the “Hiawatha” is a Chevy??
[:)]
No, he was an Iroquois.
That’s probably about 80% of the problem.[sigh]
NHS Hobbies says they offer a 20% discount on any Walthers item you order through them. Or the current Walthers sale price. Whichever is lower.
By the shore of Gitche Gumee
By the shining big sea water
In the cab of Restless Diesel
(Borrowed from the song of Clapton)
Hiawatha sat and waited
All the air was full of freshness
The semaphores were horizontal
All the lamps were red with fire
Whilst a surly freight departed
Loaded with the steel rectangles
Brought across the Great Pacific
Stacked upon the waiting flatcars
Hauled across the mighty nation
To the wigwam of Bill Walthers
Hiawatha sat and waited
Till the distant FRED departed
And the signals gave permission
For his throttle to be opened
And who would compete with them? Walthers seems to have bought just about any competitor. Besdides, these cars are probably going to be made overseas and while they’ll carry a Walthers label they’ll be made by someone else who will most likely market these cars overseas as well.
I am afraid the market for model railroad locomotives, cars and other stuff is shrinking since ther are few youngsters who can either afford or have the desire tobome model railroaders. And it is the same in most other hobbies as well.
Irv
Just wait for them to go on sale like all the other “special run” cars and series they have done.
This is just like the car industry, remember the Miata,Thunderbird? What did people do but pay above retail for these cars because of demand! Once the cars where out they could not eventually give them away. Maybe not the Miata, But T-bird, yes.
Unless you just have to be the first to have this model , just wait and let the sales fall. Look how cheap the SF Cheif cars are now in sales ad. I have bought numerous cars for 14.99 each from walthers sale flyers.
But all this aside, if you want the cars just buy them!!! You only live once, unless your James Bond!!!
It is most likely the same exact part. Besides much f the price increase is made thru something called “transfer pricing.” Under this concept each division of General Motors has a profit factor built into the manufacture of certain poarts which are sold to other divisions of the corporation. in effect, wha this does is to hide the real profits to GM by Increasing manufacturing costs to the final division. So Cadillac buys the parts from Chevrolet at Chevrolet’s cost plus a profit margin which then becomes part of Cadillac’s manufacturing costs. The end result: When the costs and profits of GM are calculated, the profit for Chevrolet is cancelled out by the Cadillac’s manufacturing costs and that’s why Cadillacs cost twice as much as comparable Chevrolets.
Irv
Please forgive me if I don’t feel that much sympathy for NYC fans.
If I want to model the New Haven’s crack 1948 passenger train (the Merchants Limited in stainless steel), I have a 4 options:
1). Pay $400 per car for the recent run in RTR brass (only $4000 for a ten car set!)
2). Pay $100-$150 per car for a 30 year old run of undec. brass from Soho, then paint them myself. No interiors, no details, and lousy trucks.
3). Pay $50 per car for brass passenger car sides w/ plastic core kit, and spend several hours building them, adding trucks, interiors, details, etc., then paint them.
4). Scratchbuild or kitbash them from ECW parts.
Gee, I sure wish someone would make my railroad’s crack passenger train for only $65 per car…cars that were painted accurately, had a full interiors, great running trucks, great details, and they even had lighting kits available for them.
Sigh.
Paul A. Cutler III
Weather Or No Go New Haven
I am with you on this one. I had to build quite a few cars from brass car sides in order to get an accurate Super Chief/El Capitan. The CIL cars were way out of my price range, and the older Soho and Lambert cars just didn’t cut it. I am also in the process of modeling a late '50s Sunset Limited and have to use styrene sides since nobody makes those cars in plastic. By the time all is said and done, building a car with brass or styrene sides still exceeds the cost in dollars and effort than what Walthers wants for the RTR Limited cars.