If you are worried something is not accurately to scale, then that might just make you a rivet counter.
SOme details may not be to scale, but that would only be really noticable or bothersome to a nit-picker.
So my diesel’s handrails are the size of a sewer pipe, and the wipers the size of a baseball bat, I don’t care. At least the “details” are there.
Too many compain about details that are NOT there, let alone the relative size of the ones that are there.
Galaxy, just because your happy with out of scale detail doesn’t mean people that aren’t are nit pickers.
Oh? really? Well lets see:
you might be a rivet counter IF you:
-Count rivets and complain about their number, lack of, or size of
-Complain about lack of detail on a model
-complain aobut the size of details
Etc, etc etc. We wouldn’t HAVE the term “rivet counter” if it wasn’t an issue to those who complain…as homus said "everything after the BUT is to be disregarded…"another way is to use a bad word not acceptable here to describe anything afer the “But” thing. ANd as mentioned here a few times: WHen the handrails WERE scale sized they were easy to break, so there is a reason for them to be “outsized”.{there may be no excuse for the outsized wipers}
May I remind all of you gentlemen: According to Webste
You know, I just like it all. It is a wonderful hobby and to watch the trains run, the detail that has been added, the beauty and craftsmanship that is so apparent now, I can’t help but marvel.
Yeh, I used to get caught up, and maybe my eye site is less than it was but to see my engines, windshield wipers or not come around the bend with box cars in tow or my passenger cars; it’s quite a sight, I just love it.
Man, the way folks here are talking, it makes it sound as if being a rivet counter is a bad thing! [sigh] The rivet counters are the ones who got us the more and more-to-scale details, and it’s not their fault that the manufacturers executed some of them either improperly or using the wrong materials. Plastic handrails are the biggest offenders in my book - if they’re strong they’re usually too big, and if they’re to scale, they’re usually too fragile. In either case, they’re usually the wrong colour. [banghead] I replace them with metal ones: strong, to-scale, and any colour I want to paint them. [swg]
So-called “rivet counters” who count any rivets other than their own denigrate a small but important segment of hobbyists who help to advance the accuracy of the products available for our enjoyment. Those types are not rivet counters but nitpickers, and they do a disservice to the hobby and to all who enjoy it in their own manner. [|(]
I used to have Model Power diesels made by Mehano (SW1, GP18, SD40, RS-2, RS-11, and C-628), all of which had water pipe sized handrails. When I got better at painting and detailing I ditched those locos.
I now have (for example) Atlas RS-3s (thick handrails) and Athearn RS-3s (thin handrails), and Atlas Alco switchers (thick handrails) and Life-Like Alco switchers (thin handrails). Sure, the handrail thickness varies, but from three feet away the diff in thickness doesn’t bother me.
Some people complain about the fragility of thin handrails, but if I have a loco with thin floppy handrails (e.g. Athearn RS-3) I Krazy Glue the stanchions into place so the handrails are firm and easy to handle.
Rivet counters are those of us who prefer to operate more detailed looking trains…
Boors are not rivet counters…they act condescending towards others, are generally obnoxious around their fellow hobbyists and are, most of the time, in all hobbies to one extent or t’other…
Let us not paste all rivet counters with the same broadbrush that in other circles is called…stereotyping.
Which is why I’m praying for the day I have room for an O scale layout. One of the things that has kept me from modeling D&RG narrow gauge has been the fact that, in HO scale, the details I’ve seen and that most appeal to me on those trains, are invisible to non-existent when scaled down.
I have been dreaming of an O scale layout for years, yet space limitations and the lack of the necessary funds have kept me from realizing this dream. Why O scale? Just for the detail - so I am a rivet head!
I am into N scale right now, and I am impressed by the detail my locos have. It´s only a fraction of a scale inch away from what HO scale offers today, but
I have to take pictures to be able to see that detail!
One of these days, when I grow up and get rich, I´ll go into O scale modeling. I am 55 now, so I hope that will happen soon.
While at the Belleville Train Show yesterday I had a vendor I know try to convince me that the Athearn Blue box kits he was selling were just as good as the Intermountain box cars I bought from someone else. He used the same excuse you read about here, you can’t see the detail from 6 feet away. We put one of my cars beside one of his and started asking people which one do you prefer. While standing 6 feet away everyone under the age of fifty picked the Intermountain car and said it clearly has more detail. The old timers were split. I thought that was kind of weird. I wish I had one of my super detailed Blue Box cars with me at the time just to show what they could look like.
One thing I’ve notice after the car or locomotive is place on the layout the super details seems to disappear once you start focusing on operation like reading car numbers,watching signals etc.
Wayne wrote:The rivet counters are the ones who got us the more and more-to-scale details, and it’s not their fault that the manufacturers executed some of them either improperly or using the wrong materials. ------------------------
Wayne,We go back several years on two forums so,I feel I can share this tidbit.
That didn’t happen overnight and we had to badger the manufacturers who said it wouldn’t be feasible due to the cost involved and turned a deaf ear to our request including Atlas and Uncle Irv stated he wanted no part of it because his main goal was to keep his products affordable…
And out of the clear blue sky…
A company that was considered as a “train set” manufacturer showed the rest that it could be done by releasing a highly detailed caboose followed by a highly detailed BL2 followed by more highly detailed locomotives…
So,the other manufacturers had to play catch up and we decided we wanted more details and more road specific details and we have arrived.
One thing the manufacturers did say that came true…It would be costly.[swg]
When I first got into the hobby about 8 years ago now I just took it for granted that the better stuff cost more. I didn’t really know any better. Guys like Wayne and yourself who have been in the hobby for decades now have seen the change first hand. Do you think Companys like Intermountain, Athearns Genesis line and the Proto 2000 stuff were produced because you guys wanted it or because the people just getting into the hobby, like myself demanded it?
To be honest I doubt I would have got as heavily into the hobby as I am now if it wasn’t for the higher end, more expensive stuff. It looks just so real. I’ve got an old Athearn Blue Box CP Rail caboose on my layout, it’s the first train related item my wife ever gave me. It’s parked on a caboose track with a bunch of Rapido’s cabooses. To say it looks out of place is an understatement. The Rapido’s just look so real, just as good or even better then some of my brass ones.
No…Actually it started with brass steam engines from PFM/United,Balboa,Sunset and in the 60’s brass diesels from Alco,Hallmark and Trains Inc…These was the fairly detailed diesel locomotives back in the day-look at the plastic locomotives most was crudely made- it must be noted that Athearn had the best looking plastic diesels and freight cars of that era and a top line drive…Speaking of BB cars most pale in comparison with their improved RTR brethren.
The answer is obvious, switch to something in large scale like Gauge 1, model 1/32 scale and scratchbuild all your rolling stock. Then you can get hyper-rivet-ational about the correct size of everything. Otherwise your going to have to live with compromised model, the smaller the scale, the greater the compromise. Whats next, someone complaining because the plastic shell on thier SD40 isnt to scale thickness with the sheet metal used on the real engine?
The sad truth is that despite what anyone will admit, most all modern plastic model trains are still the legacy of their TOY TRAIN roots, they’ve gotten betterat detail and scale over the years but the basic manufacturing of the plastic models hasnt significantly changed since the 1950’s, they’ve just better at adding details but their will always have to be some sort of compromise inherent in the manufacturing process, its just what it is.
Besides if someone doesnt like something like the handrails being out of scale on their engine theres nothing stopping them from yanking those offending rails off and replacing them with the “correct” dia wire. Sometimes if you want something that specific you’re going to have to modify it yourself. The manufacturers are more concerned about providing a durable product to the many, not a delicate easy to break Fabrage Egg for the few.
I love working in large scale, handrails are just the least part of the fun:
