After owning Broadway’s Q2 hybrid, I’m beginning to feel that brass is the only way to go when it comes to steam. I’m tired of plastic pieces falling off my other steamers, I also feel that sound is a liability, its just something else that could not work out of the box. I’m tired of plastic engines that feel light as a feather when you pick them up, I want something heavy. I would rather own a couple of extremely expensive brass engines, rather than a fleet of plastics with sound and dcc.
Brass engines look the most like real steam engines, and once you get rid of all of the other gimmicks, why not pay the extra cost for extra detail? You get what you pay for.
And think of it this way, if you were in N scale, and modeling the PRR steam era, brass wouldn’t be a luxury, it would be a necessity. There simply isn’t anything available in this area for n scale, excluding brass.
The only issue I have is the limited commercial support for this segment of the hobby. This puzzles me, why is this? If people are willing to pay huge amounts of cash for several plastic steamers, why wouldn’t they be willing to pay the same for one brass steam engine with superior weight and detail? The HO crowd has always been about expecting the best detail, but why so little interest in brass nowadays? I understand the economy is bad, but putting that issue aside, are there any other reasons why there is a lack of a market for expensive, yet highly detailed brass models? Why such limited runs?
I think you already know the answer, but just don’t want to accept it. A nicely detailed brass engine is great to look at, and may even make one feel all warm n fuzzy when carefully pulling it out of the display case and putting it on the tracks, but when it’s moving around the tracks 5ft away, those details just seem to blend in. If I owned a Bugatti Veyron, you had better bet I’d also own a 1985 Chevette for a daily driver. I’m not against brass, I actually own several and would love to own more, but to obtain the numbers and diversity I’m after it would be cost prohibitive to go all brass.
A lot of older brass steamers were made for collectors and were not intended for running on anything more than a yard of track, confirmed by the number of brass engines still around in lacquered brass rather than being painted and lettered.
Although a good number of the mechanisms and gearboxes work, they are not as good runners as many of the better plastic models currently on offer. I have 7 assorted brass steamers and none of them work as well as my Heritage 0-8-0s and 0-6-0s
My fleet consists of 2 brass steamers and 2 of the Blackstone K-27s. It did require a bit of work, but I have both brass locos performing as well on DCC as the Blackstones. The key is to pick your models carefully. Some brands (e.g. Balboa) are best avoided, while other brands (West Side, Sunset) make for smooth runners. And these are older models that I’ve done up with new motors, idler gears, etc. The design of most brass models makes them easy to work with - a simple chassis under the boiler shell.
The other main issue I found with brass locos was putting front couplers on them. The West Side C-25 took a Micro-Trains N scale coupler on the front, but my only option for the Sunset C-16 appears to be a Sergeant coupler.
I have been in the hobby since 1947, and I wouldn’t own a plastic steam locomotive. I have a shelf full of trophies for brass steam locos I built from scratch, from 1951 to 2008. Those satisfied with plastic representations of a steam loco are welcome to them; I require something I can add detaiil to, and be proud to place on the track as a scale model. With brass, you have quality instead of quantity. Go for it.
Hoo-HAH, I cannot WAIT to read some of the responses you’re going to get, LOL! [:D]
Now, with that out of the way, and as a person who models a railroad in which about the only way one can collect a decent roster is to GO with brass, let me say a few things:
1: Brass need not be prohibitively expensive–there are several hobby shops around the country that carry quite a stock of ‘consignment’ brass–and a lot of it is at prices that are not that much more expensive than new, current steamers from non-brass manufacturers. The last brass locomotive I bought cost me considerably less than buying a steam locomotive (which wouldn’t have fit my particular layout, anyway) from BLI, MTH or Proto.
2: Very few brass locomotives are ‘shelf-queens’, these days–possibly fewer than some of the newer plastic locos with Quality Control issues-- they are built to not only look good, but RUN good. Even an older consignment brass loco can be made to run well with a little TLC, and brass is extremely easy and very ‘forgiving’ to work with. Brass is easily remotored, re-weighted and rebalanced. I kinow this from experience, I have a rather large brass roster, and they are purchased with the idea of RUNNING them, not just putting them in a case and looking at them.
3: I run strictly DC, so I do not know about converting brass to DCC, however I have heard from more and more people with brass locos that the conversion is not difficult, and does NOT result in a poorer-running locomotive on DCC. My DC brass has been bought with the idea of RUNNING them, and run, they do. I have an under-table sound system from Soundtraxx that gives me all the noise I want–when I choose to use it, which frankly, is mostly for company, LOL! [:P]
4: Brass can require a little more TLC than current Mfgr’s steamers, due to the more ‘prototype’ tolerances built into a brass loco. This
Gee, that’s a bit like saying I will never own another car that isn’t handbuilt and crafted as a Rolls Royce just because Toyota’s have an acceleration problem, or the side molding came of the Dodge’s door, or the Chevy’s upholstery didn’t fit the seats well. And heaven forbid the “woodgrain dash” in the Mercedes is really plastic made to look like wood!
If you can afford brass, and it is your choice to purchase exclusively brass locos, then be my guest. I would assume you’ll also be the first to scream the loudest when your $1,500 brass loco fails.
Meanwhile I will stick with my Bachmann. I don’t have the budget for brass, I don’t expect much from my Bachmanns and if they fail, I’m not out much.
Have one beauty brass Berkshire, it’s magnifigant, runs like a top and I paid $75.00 less a tender, tender was $70.00, what a dream. probably won’t own another brass but would like to, there are beautiful used brass locomotive on the internet that can be had for $275.00 or $300.00, and of course there are $1700.00 locos as well, depending on the specific loco you want some brass is even cheaper than plastic. Some sites have 3-4000 brass locomotives in stock and they are all guaranteed.
Remember: Who said model railroading was for the poor?
I now have two hybrids from BLI, and I love them. But the level of detail won’t match a brass engine issued new for almost double the cost of a hybrid.
I must say, though, that I don’t seem to have the troubles that people have with details falling off my plastic engines…not that there are that many to lose. [(-D] But, seriously, I don’t get it…I have dropped three engines, wrecked one that needed repairs, bent up another that was fixed by my repair friend, both of those were metal. My plastic BLI 2-10-4 crunched into the same box of Christmas ornaments since gravity gave it the same vector as the other two, but it suffered only a bent drawbar. I’m not kidding, not a marker light, not a bent handrail…only a slightly pretzeled drawbar. Took me more time to go get the pliers and then put them back than it took to straighten the drawbar.
I love my plastic. It may not have all the details, but I entered the hobby knowing everything about it was illusory…so my mind has to be active in fleshing out everything it feels is missing. In HO, from 4 feet away, how much do we miss, anyway. If something glaring is missing in images, we can do something about that, but otherwise…
Well, thanks everyone for the advice. I’m actually not wealthy, just a dreamer. [(-D]
I would be thrilled to obtain a certain model from Challenger Imports that is way out of my price range. Maybe I’ll sell my plastic stuff to help pay for some of it.
Other than that, I think I will just hope and pray that Broadway decides to release more Pennsy Brass Hybrids. I love the Q2, its the smoothest running, best detailed engine that I own.
I like my Bachmann Southern consolidation, but again, its just too light for my taste, although the detail is still excellent for plastic. Perhaps Broadway is secretly planning to release a fleet of brass hybrids consolidations in various road names? We can only hope and pray.[swg] The demand is obviously there, so why not?
Anyway, I guess at this point I just won’t buy anymore plastic from now on, excluding diesel of course, which I actually prefer to be plastic.
you get the BLI Y6b you have an alternative from brass/plastic, this beast is cast metal mostly. heavy and pulls and crawls and sounds like the engine.
Consider what Bowser offered as well as a non plastic metal engine.
More power to you, if you have the cash for that sort of thing. I’ve found the newer plastic and plastic/metal locos to be better detailed then all but the top of the line brass. Prime example, the Broadway Reading T-1’s. They are far better detailed than anythign exacpt the Overland brass versions. Prior to Overland, the next newest run was by Dayoung for NJ International - and there simply is no comparison, the Broadway model runs and looks better. And that NJ model sold for nearly the same price as teh Broadway one - unpainted and of cource withotu DCC and sound. And that was in 1970’s dollars. The Overland ones are nice to be sure, but they are also north of $1000 when painted.
I’ve had great luck with those Broadway models I’ve been able to run, and others have had very high success rates with Bachmann’s SPectrum steam locos. But it’s your money. Far be it for anyone to tell you how to send it.
My training was in marine engineering, and I spent a quarter-century maintaining Sam’s flying machines. If something breaks, I fix it. If something isn’t available, I get the closest thing to it and kitbash it. As a last resort, I might scratchbuild from the rails up.
That said, I don’t see a difference between models made of brass, steel (real tinplate, treated like brass,) zinc alloy, plastic, wood, shirt cardboard or any combination thereof. Once painted and in service, who (other than the owner) will know. To me, the important thing is that the model is, or could be mistaken for, something that operated on my chosen prototype railroad at the time and place that I’ve decided to model.
Most of my roster is brass, purchased as kits(!) in Japan forty or more years ago. A few more recent acquisitions were manufactured with plastic superstructures and have been kitbashed with both plastic and brass detail parts. I don’t run DCC and consider the sound output of a speaker the size of a quarter to be vastly inferior to the genuine article generated by a 1:1 scale locomotive. Proper lubrication and taking any looseness out of the drive system is all the mechanical adjusting I’ve ever done to my kit-builds, and my entire fleet operates in a manner satisfactory to me.
If you want to have only brass models, be aware that some of them have also shed parts, or had wheels disintegrate, or have otherwise exhibited behavior as bad as any Tyco plastic special. Poor quality control has nothing to do with the material, and everything to do with the manufacturer’s attention to detail.
As Tom notes, there are some affordable and decent-running brass locos available. There are also a lot of affordable and not-so-good-running brass locos, too. If you’re prepared to go the “brass-only” route, then you’re likely to have the interest and ability to do the tinkering necessary when you end up with one of the latter.
If you have those abilities, though, it’s also possible to add weight to your Bachmann loco or upgrade the details, too.
I have a number of plastic steamers with which I’m quite satisfied, and also a couple of brass ones. One was a decent runner right out of the box, but not so impressive in the pulling department, a problem which I’ll eventually get around to correcting. The other was a poor puller and a very poor runner, both issues which were remedied before putting the loco into service.
Brass or not brass - for me, that´s not the question. I don´t care whether a loco is made out of brass or plastic, as long as it is nicely detailed, matches prototype dimensions and is a good performer.
Unfortunately (for them, not for me), the main stream manufacturers have only a very limited choice of steamers in which I am interested in. Big Boys, Challengers, T-1´s and the likes would find no place on my dream layout. What I am looking for are 2-6-0´s, 4-6-0´s, 2-8-0s and 4-4-0´s of the 1890 to 1910 period. There is not much around, other than some Bachmann Spectrum locos. But there are plenty of used brass locos at similar prices available.
If you have the where-with-all, do it. There are some very nice non-brass locomotives available from the various manufacturers, but only time will tell if they are still operating 30+ years from new, as are my PFM 2-8-4s. All of my Proto 2000 Kanawhas are in the dead lines, and the old brass keeps chugging along.
My observation is that many of the current crop of non-brass steam locomotives are made with far too many compromises. The need for a 2-10-4 or 4-6-6-4 to operate on 22" radius curves results in a compromise in the drive mechanisms that allow it, but detract form the overall appearance of the locomotive. Then there is the need of the manufacturer to control costs (or maximize profits). When Bachmann announced the production of the C&O H-4 2-6-6-2, I was thrilled. My thought was that I could double my roster of H-4s, and it would not break the bank. When Bachmann’s effort was released, my disappointment was tremendous. They used the boiler and mechanism from the USRA 2-6-6-2, I assume to save on tooling costs, and produced a locomotive that has little resemblance to the prototype.
So my Key and Custom Brass H-4s will remain the extent of my fleet. Yes I have been forced to re-gear the Custom brass locos, but they continue to run flawlessly with just minor maintenance, and they look like the beloved H-4. No they will not operate on 18" radius curves, but my minimum radius is far greater.
Unless and until the manufacturers of non-brass steam locomotives abandon the “toy train” mentality, I am quite content to roster fewer, albeit more expensive, brass locos.
