Imrpove Lionel Trainsounds Caboose Sound Quality?

Classic Toy Trains Forum
1

Hi everyone,

I just purchased a Lionel Lines bay window caboose with Trainsounds (#6-29834). I am disappointed with the sound quality. I have the Mikado Jr. engine with its Trainsounds tender and am very happy with its sound quality so don’t think Trainsounds is the problem. I suspect the problem with the caboose is mostly due to the tiny oval speaker in it. Has anyone had the same experience and dnoe anything about it (ie replace the speaker or some other solution)?

Thanks in advance for your replies,

Neil

2

I don’t see a service manual for the caboose, jut the owners manual. Where is the speaker located? On the tenders it is usually installed face down near the center. It looks like the caboose has other stuff in the way. The tender may also be using the shell as a resonance chamber to improve the sound quality. If there is no port for the speakers sound to get out of the shell that may explain a lot of the difference in the sound quality.

Lionel has used baffles/ducts in a number of RailSounds products and you may be able to adapt this to the caboose. You can also replace the speaker by matching the impeadance (should have an Omega on the magnet that indicates that it is a 4 ohm or 8 ohm speaker.

3

Actually, acoustical resonance is the enemy in the design of speaker enclosures. Below the resonant frequency, the speaker’s output decreases rapidly. Putting the speaker in an enclosure tends to raise the resonant frequency by adding the pneumatic pressure of the enclosed air to the spring force of the cone support. On the other hand, at wavelengths long compared to the cone dimensions, the out-of-phase radiation from the back of the speaker tends to cancel that from the front. A rigid sealed enclosure prevents this and improves low-frequency performance.

A further improvement is possible with the bass-reflex technique, which acoustically delays within the enclosure the sound radiated from the back of the speaker and then emits it from a port. The delay is arranged to get the delayed sound back into phase with the radiation from the front, extending the low-frequency response significantly below what it would otherwise be.

I doubt that much thought has gone into the enclosure design for toy trains, which is too bad, since the small loudspeakers that must be used could benefit from anything that extends their bass response to do a better job with the low-frequency sounds that abound around prototype trains.

4

Most of the RailSounds equipped locomotives have some form or attention paid to extending the sound quality given the limitations of power (about 1-1.5 watts) and the size of the speakers available (2" or less). The higher end equiment uses higher end (FatBoy) speakers (sometimes more than one) and even lower end equipment has rubber gaskets and ducting to squeeze what they can out of the unit.

5

Neil,

The Caboose is TRAINSOUNDS (TS), the Mikado jr uses RAILSOUNDS (RS), they are not the same. RS is a better system, the sounds are usually sound on sound, where TS is usually a single sound at a time system. RS tends to sound better too, I don’t know if it is because of using a better speaker, better accoustical design in the enclosure, or some other reason, but the two systems are different.

Doug

6

Thanks everyone for your comments. For clarity, my Mikado is Trainsounds as is my caboose. My Mikado does not have Railsounds…it is not sound on sound but only one sound at a time.

It looks like I will just have to experiment with a different speaker and perhaps some baffles to improve the sound.

Neil

7

Hi Neil,

Which Mikado do you have? I’m sure not going to doubt You, I just didn’t know of any that used Trainsounds rather than Railsounds, But I could be wrong.

Doug

8

lionelsoni pretty much hit it on the head … but most of the time on any sound output a better or pair of higher quality speakers makes a world of difference even on low budget amps of any type . You’d be surprised !

9

Hi Doug,

Don’t worry about doubting me…you won’t be the first!

My Mikado is Lionel Lines unit #6-38608. I also have the Alaska diesel sounds boxcar #6-26817. They both have Trainsounds, are very similar in types of sounds ( except of course steam vs diesel) and both produce pretty good quality sound.

My Trainsounds caboose is awful by comparison (and it doesn’t help that the fellow who is speaking sounds like a grumpy Elmer Fudd).

Neil

10

What is the product number/model number of your Lionel Mikado?

A product search (“Mikado”) on Lionel’s website indicates that they all come with a RAILsounds tender.

Thanks.

11

Hi Again Neil,

Are You SURE that it has Trainsounds, I just checked Lionel’s on line catalog, and the 6-38608 is the Lionel Lines Mikado jr. last cataloged in the 2007 vol.2, which does say it has railsounds.

It is your locomotive, and I haven’t run it, so maybe you got an OOPS, hard to say. I have a couple of Mikado jr’s and have given a couple as gifts( I always play with, er, uhh, TEST RUN, any before giving as gifts[swg]) and have been Happy[:D] with the sounds on all of them that I have had.

Doug

12

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Here is a link to Lionel’s “Product Finder”, which indicates that the Mikado 6-38608 comes with a RAILsounds (not TRAINsounds) tender.

Link: Lionel Product Finder

This explains why the Mikado’s tender sounds much more realistic than the TRAINsounds caboose.

13

Interesting comment as a year ago when I bought my Mikado the Lionel web site and the product manual lists the system as Trainsounds. I notice that even in today’s web site the sound is described as “conventional Railsounds”. I note that the web site still lists my Alaska diesel sound boxcar as Trainsounds.

Irregardless, the caboose still sounds tinnier than both the Mikado and Alaska boxcar. It appears as though the solution will be to try to source a bigger speaker and make a bass baffle of some sort inside the caboose.

Neil

14

Neil,

Well… I’m just as confused as your are.

I’d sure like to see a copy of your Mikado Operating Manual where it describes the tender as using TRAINsounds, as opposed to the RAILsounds that it should have been equipped with.

I have never been a fan of Lionel’s TRAINsounds products.

According to Lionel’s Chief Technical Officer, a “decibel limiter” has been installed, making the volume level SO low, you can not hear the TRAINsounds over the loud noise of the train… whether it’s Lionel’s noisy Fastrack, or their “O” or “027” tinplate track.

The reason for this “decibel limiter”, was to protect “Little Johnny’s ears” from excessive noise.

Well… if the “noise” from the trains running on the track is LOUDER than what the TRAINsounds tender is capable, what is the point of that? [%-)]

Lionel should abandon TRAINsounds, in favor of their proven RAILsounds (the best in the industry) technology!

15

Neil,

Regardless of what the manual, or website say or said, the easy way to determine if you have Railsounds(RS) or Trainsounds(TS) is to run the locomotive, while running turn on the Bell, with RS you will still hear the chugging while the bell is ringing. With TS, the chugging COMPLETELY goes away, and all you will hear is the Bell. With TS with the bell ringing, if you blow the whistle, the bell will stop and then start again when you finish whistling, turn the bell off and the chugging will resume.

With RS, the chugging will continue when you ring the Bell. If You blow the Whistle with the Bell ringing, you will be able to hear all three sounds, but the whistle will tend to drown the other two out, but if you listen close, they are still there.

I admit, you’ve got me Curious, I have never seen/heard a Mikado jr with TS, but I do seem to recall the first catalog they came out in, did have them incorrectly described with TS, fortunately, all of mine have had RS. It is a Shame that Lionel used TS on the Berkshire jr’s, they are a good looking loco, with nice valve gearing, but unfortunately with the TS system. I think that some early Berk jr’s had RS though, I will have to check my Nephew’s.

The early Hudson jr’s had the RS, I REALLY LIKE the Chug and Whistle on those[:D], but the later ones, they downgraded to TS, BUMMER[tdn]. I agree with an earlier poster, I too wish that Lionel would drop TS, and just equip everything with RS.

Doug