In need of advice...

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

First of all I am new and old to this hobby. I have always had a model train but it doesn’t have a permanent home nor do I have an elaborate set up. I am just now deciding that I want to build a permanent n scale layout. But I have a few problems that I need to overcome first. I am trying to choose between two different railroads to model. As a kid growing up in the 80’s and 90’s, I have fond memories of my grandma’s house which was placed in Crete, Nebraska a block away from the Burlington Northern line. I remember watching them every chance I got. I would also watch the switch engine moving cars for the grain elevator. The other line is Union Pacific as I grew up in Nebraska City, NE and would ride my bike down to the small railyard there and watch the trains go by. I even remember when I was really young the line as a Mopac railroad. I am also thinkin UP due to my uncle working for them out in the North Platte area before he retired. I know if I go with the BN that I am looking at modeling them in the late 80’s and early 90’s. If I go with UP and not really limited to a time frame and that is really appealling to me. I am just wondering how hard it would be to do a more period timeframe than it would be to just go with something more modern.

The next problem that I have that I am soooo not a handy man Dan. I don’t have any wood working skills whatsoever. I was wondering how easy making a benchwork would be and if I could be able to do it myself. I guess what I need to is to learn more about the hobby, because I have some questions about how DCC works. I think I would like that but I am not sure how that works… I guess I should have paid attention to my electrician dad… If anyone has any good ideas on where I should start… I have a couple of different places in my house to put a layout one is 7x8 and the other is 8x14. I am leaning towards the bigger room but I am

2

Welcome to the forums and to the hobby.

First, it’s your layout. You can run what you want and even change history. Many folks have extended the life of a railroad so that they can model it in a time after it had been absorbed by merger. You can just alter history a little. Since your two roads were close, location shouldn’t be much of a problem.

To start a layout one does not have to be a finish carpenter. A 4’x8’ sheet of 1/2" plywood or 2" foam insulation (pink or blue) with 1"x3"s for a frame and 2-1"x3" in an L. braced at each corner and you have a table to start on. I would suggest you get Kalmbach’s basic book on building benchwork, it will explain many things to you. I would also suggest you get their basic books on wiring (get one on DCC), planning and scenery to get you headed in the right direction.

Once you have read these, you will have more questions. You are in the right place to ask, many knowledgeable people are here, ready to answer you. You will find that some questions have several answers. None are wrong, but you will have to figure out which one is best for you. Part of the fun is trying different things and see how they work.

Reading books, these forums, asking questions here, going to train shows to see different layouts and ask more questions there. If you can find a club in your area, talk to some of the members, I’m sure they will be glad to give you a hand.

To find groups and events go to the top of this page and the light gray line. Find Resources, click on Comming Events and Model RR Groups, click on all ______. then click on Iowa. If you are near the border, there is a way to put in your zip code and how many miles you want it to search.

Hope this helps.

Have fun,

3

Welcome aboard, & thanks for asking! Some folk don’t ask, & they really should, as there are many people here that will help every step of the way. With your observation experience, you may have a good idea of what you want to build, & that is good. Take to heart, however, what you ‘want’… Often times I get in the ‘mode’ of ‘if I can do it great once’… so to speak… It is a nice goal, but not always practical. Your choices are open, & please explore them & have fun with it, as it can be anything you want it to be.

As far as being Handy, the level of MacGyverizm is up to you, you will learn many talents each & every day, & learn which ones to keep & use in the future on your next projects. I still learn new things, & I been at it for a while & then some, Ha hah.

As far as DCC, it is really like ‘morse code’ or ‘ip addrssing’ units (locomotives, cars, or accessories) (on demand) on the same track… Each unit has it’s own ID & you can command it.

I hope this helps a bit, & hope you are interested in in designing something that fits what you envision, as it is what you make it… Which ‘IS’ the majic of the hobby!

4

It’s your railroad. Build it the way you want. You will get plenty of suggestions here. If you don’t pin down a time period or specific railroad you can run anything you want or add what you want to the layout as you go along.

You could start with a few sturdy folding tables for a base or bolt them together. If you decide on snap track with roadbed like Atlas or Kato you can lay things out, use it for awhile and change things easy till you are satisfid. This will give you a chance to see how things go together and operate. Later you can reuse what you have for a layout without any loss.

Over the years i started with Lionel changed to HO scale then went n scale. Got a house and built a garden railway with 95 feet of track. Then moved again and now have HO and N scale in the basement. Shop around for the best prices and i must say when i sold my equipment recovered almost all i had invested . As they say your never done.

Bob

5

Thanks so much for the information. I have been interested in trains since I was a little kid and had this overwhelming regard for them. I am an avid trainspotter in the area and love to chase trains and take pictures and videos.

One of the biggest questions I wonder about is I have at least 3 different scenes in mind. One is the Nebraska City yard area and river port on the Missouri River. This is run by Union Pacific. The second is the Crete, Nebraska Grain elevator. I would spend countless hours watching the switching crew and the rail traffic was rather heavy so I saw many trains. This elevator is enormous and is the landscape of Crete. I also like the Missouri River crossing at Plattsmouth, NE. Now the last two areas are run by BNSF. I am just not sure how to combine the three.

The other thing that I am curious about is how do I design a plan for my layout? How do I know what I am drawing is going to work? Is there a program that I can acquire for my computer that will do this work more exact than a drawing?

Again thanks for all the advice that everyone has given me. I hope to get started building my layout in the next couple of months. It looks like I need to have some more information before I am truly ready to start building. Thanks again.

6

Hello and welcome,

As far as choosing which railroad to model, that’s really up to you. No one here can really say which way to go with “your choice”. If you are not sure than maybe you can model all the railroads of your choice by installing an interchange yard somewhere on your layout.

In my opinion, you should start out reading about the hobby first. Kalmbach has some really great books at reasonable prices that will get you started. Go to their website www.kalmbach.com and place an order for the following “how to” book topics: benchwork, wiring, trackwork, DCC, and scenery.

Model Railroading is a really fun hobby once you learn how to do it. You’re gonna make a lot of mistakes when you start and reading the books first will keep the mistakes to a dull roar. If you don’t succeed, tear it out and start over. That’s the best way to learn. There are a lot of people that get frustrated with the hobby when they do make a mistake and don’t go back to it. It takes someone with a tenatious spirit to overcome any obstacles in this hobby. Also, keep in mind that this is not an “instant gratification” hobby. It takes years to build a good looking railroad. I’m on my sixth layout and have been working on it for 7 years now and still a section of it is the plywood central, but i know one day it will be completed. good luck!..chuck

7

Welcome aboard! As long as you’re asking, I’m going to spout off.

As far as track planning, Atlas has a free program called Right Track Software (RTRS) available on its website. There are plenty of more robust options available, but most of 'em cost money. Personally, I’d rather spend my hobby dollars on something other than software. I use RTS. It’s relatively easy to learn and does an acceptable job.

I highly recommend that you find yourself a copy of “Track Planning for Realistic Operation” by John Armstrong. It’s pretty much the Bible on the subject. I doubt if it’s still in print, but you should be able to find a used copy on the 'net.

Finally, I’ll make a pitch for using hollow-core doors for your benchwork. It’s quick and easy, and requires next to no carpentry skills. I built two large layouts using conventional L-girder construction, and I’ll never do it again. Again, it’s a matter of focusing time, effort and dollars on aspects of the hobby I enjoy the most. I’d rather be doing just about anything than building benchwork, and it sounds like you’re in the same boat.

Hollow-core doors are especially suitable for N gauge (I made the switch from HO to N about a year ago). Even better, they provide an easy way to make sure your layout is sectional (portable) in the event you ever need to move it. That is a crucial point. There’s nothing worse than having to dismantle a layout that could have been saved if better planning and construction methods had been implemented.

There’s plenty of info available on all these subjects on this website. Search, and if that fails, don’t hesitate to ask.

Good luck!

(Incidentally, my layout is set in your neck of the woods. I’m modeling a fictional bridge route between the UP and the Chcago & North Western, set in the 1950s. In real life, of course, the C&NW extended all the way to Council Bluffs. In my universe, it ends a bit west of Boone, where my Missouri Valley West

8

Why would modeling one over the other determine a time frame or not? In my opinion it is easier to model a pre-determine time frame because it sets limits on the scenery, the rolling stock, the locomotives, etc. In my opinion it is BETTER to model a specific time period. It focuses the modeling effort & research, makes things cheaper, and just ends up being more satisfying.

That could depend on the tools that are available. Benchwork isn’t much more than cutting boards to a given length and screwing them together. The more one does this sort of work the better they get at it. It isn’t a highly visible thing so a few booboos won’t even be noticed.

Why do you want to know how it works? All that one really needs to know is to hook up the two wires from the DCC control unit to the track, put the DCC locomotive on the track, dial up channel 3, and run the train. The first more difficult thing is changing the channel in the 2nd locomotive to something different than 3. For the harder stuff like installing decoders into DC locmotives one still does not need to know how it works. A journeyman electriction will probably not understand how it works either, that is more in the realm of computer networking (electronics).

9

One of the first things you need to do in planning is to define your space. Put in all obsticles, doors, windows, appliances, water meters, electric panels, support posts, etc. A reasonable height self layout will allow you to go over some of your obsticles, a gate will allow you access through a door and allow continuous running.

As to your favorite scenes some, of your decisions will have to be based on your space available. If you have room enough, the two scenes from one rr could be moved close together on one side, while the other scene be on the other side of the layout. An interchange yard could be set up between the two. A little creative thinking to get them both to have some on scene movement though one rr might be limited, while the other rr might be your major focus.

Good luck,

10

I am so happy to have found this forum. Thank you to everyone for all the advice. I am going to get some literature to learn more before I break in the room downstairs. I am leaning towards the larger room. I am also thinking about using the smaller room as a staging area. I guess I am thinking like a true modal railroader… more room for a train room.

11

The one nice thing about the rooms downstairs is that they are finished rooms so I don’t have any obstacles other than a fireplace in the larger room. But we never use the fireplace so I wouldn’t feel bad modeling around it. I am going to be cleaing out that room so I can take some measurements to see what I have available as usable space. I am interested in a through track layout so I can run them around. I am also looking at the idea that was mention with creating a junction point and just run UP and BN both. I will definately have my work cut out for me in a design plan.

12

One thing to add that I have not seen- don’t decide on too large of a layout. After a few layouts that I started and never finished, I began a much smaller effort that takes an area 8x11. I now know that I will be able to finish it to some level of satisfaction.

mike

13

By all means, go for DCC from the beginning. Most of us old timers are converting from DC to DCC, but old locos draw too much current,and should be discarded. Get Kalmbach books on DCC, to do the learning curve. You understand that the term “Ready” on loco ads means that they have to have a decoder added, whereas the term “Equipped”, means that the decoder is already installed for DCC operation. Is the house owned or “rented”? What restrictions are there as to nailing the footings to the floor? I like the era of transition from steam to diesel 1950-60 There are plenty locos , rolling stock and structures available in any era. Many of the modelers use 2" foam insulation on top of 1/2"plywood. I use 5/8" plywood on top of old dressers and 2"x4" legs, screwed to 1"x3" box framing. I screwed the legs to the floor.I cut the layout top into undulating curves, rather than sharp corners.I use heavy wire screening tacked to plywood arcs for my mountains. The screening is then covered with plaster cloth and finallya layer to Hydrocal plaster, or Sculptmold plaster, that is then primed and stained, or spray painted. Dream-Plan-Build are the steps of sequence. Go for as large a space (the better half) will allow.Go for around the room, if possible. Even if it means a lift out entrance, or “duck-under”. Bob Hahn

14

By all means, go for DCC from the beginning. Most of us old timers are converting from DC to DCC, but old locos draw too much current,and should be discarded. Get Kalmbach books on DCC, to do the learning curve. You understand that the term “Ready” on loco ads means that they have to have a decoder added, whereas the term “Equipped”, means that the decoder is already installed for DCC operation. Is the house owned or “rented”? What restrictions are there as to nailing the footings to the floor? I like the era of transition from steam to diesel 1950-60 There are plenty locos , rolling stock and structures available in any era. Many of the modelers use 2" foam insulation on top of 1/2"plywood. I use 5/8" plywood on top of old dressers and 2"x4" legs, screwed to 1"x3" box framing. I screwed the legs to the floor.I cut the layout top into undulating curves, rather than sharp corners.I use heavy wire screening tacked to plywood arcs for my mountains. The screening is then covered with plaster cloth and finallya layer to Hydrocal plaster, or Sculptmold plaster, that is then primed and stained, or spray painted. Dream-Plan-Build are the steps of sequence. Go for as large a space (the better half) will allow.Go for arpound the room, if possible. Even if it means a lift out entrance, of “duck-under”. Bob Hahn

15

Thanks! I went to a local train shop today in Omaha and I got some great information there. After a conversation there I am definately going the route of DCC. It doesn’t seem too complicated to do, but the expense will definately be worth it in the end. I am also thinking about getting rid of my current stock that have rapido couplers. I am really liking the more realistic couplers and I found out how much it costs to change out the couplers… wow that is a cost.

I actually own the house I am in but the floor in the basement is concrete so I don’t know about attaching footings to the floor. I am thinking about running to layout around the outside of the room, but I am looking at looping it back behind the route. I am thinking about double siding the layout so that I have a view from both sides.

I do like the idea of using dressers to use for the setup. The space would be great for storage. But I am so particular that I would want matching dressers [:)]

Anyhow, while I was out I also snapped a few photos and a video of a BNSF crossing the bridge at Plattsmouth, NE. I hope to have them posted either this evening or tomorrow. Again, to everyone thanks for the advice and if anyone has anything else they would like to share with me it is greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone.

16

Yes, converting couplers (and/or wheels) gets costly, but looks and performance should be much improved.

I wouldn’t attach the legs to the floors, just have some reasonable bracing to keep them vertical. You do want to think of putting something over the concrete to walk on. Walking on bare concrete floors can get very tiring. You can have just runners in your asiles or do the whole floor. If you carpet, be sure it is a very tight weave, much easier to find things.

As for dressers, they would make good storage, but I think most are a little too short for a layout. A good layout height, for best viewing angle, is concidered up at chest level. That is unless you have children to concider, stools and benches will help them and they will grow.

My plan is for an around the room shelf layout with a penninsula. The penninsula will have a scenic divider down the middle, so it can be viewed from both sides as two seperate areas.

Yes, there is a lot of thinking, planning, re-thinking and more planning before you get a “final” plan and that may change as you build. My hope is to get the basic benchwork done and trains running. Then start improving section at a time.

Good luck,

17

Yeah I considered changing them but I can probably get more out of my stock by putting them on ebay and then starting new. There are a few cars that I will keep because I just flat out like them. The rooms in the basement are already carpeted so that is not a worry. As for the texture of the carpet… well that is not what I would like but I will make due. I am probably going to put a few desk chair covers on the floor to help out a little bit.

I am happy to say that I did make my first purchase and really first decision for my layout. I bought the Kato template so I can start drawing up a layout or at least a couple of sidings and industries. So I am excited to put my ideas on paper.

As I stated in an earlier post I took a video of a BNSF train crossing the bridge at Plattsmouth. Well it is not the best video but at least everyone can get an idea of the bridge I would like to recreate. Now unfortunately, I couldn’t get but the east end of the bridge because of the trees around the Missouri River. here is the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onztsZESDUU I hope it is up and running if not I will repost it again.

18

Starting over may be a good idea. As for couplers and wheels, I would at least suggest metal wheels on everything- it helps performance of the cars. As for couplers, there are plenty of alternatives. The main thing is to make certain that your trackwork is sound. Nothing is a bigger bummer than putting in a lot of time and effort and having derailments. On this version of my layout I spent a lot of time getting the track joints smooth; getting the turnouts smooth (filing switchpoints, etc.) and soldering the rail joints.

At present I use Bachman EZ-Mate couplers (they are inexpensive and perform just fine). I’ve switched to Reboxx metal wheels (mine are semi scale but don’t go that route if you are just beginning). To make sure I have decent trackwork, I couple up a half dozen cars and run them in reverse at speed. If they derail, I need to improve my trackwork. Beyond the cost of the car itself, I recently paid $13.50 US to convert couplers on 20 cars and $8.50 for metal wheels enough to convert 3 cars. My stable of rolling stock is not all that large, so I don’t have hundreds of cars to convert and it won’t cost that much.

My 2 cents…

Mike

19

I ran across something the other day. Since I have rapido couplers on all my stock right now, I seen an article where someone has a two or three transition cars. They just replaced the coupler on one side so they could still run their stock with rapido couplers. What I would like to know is how reliable is that? Maybe that is something that I could do for the meantime while I am change out my exsisting stock. Again thanks for your advice.

20

That would be either Train Time on 84th or House of Trains on Maple?

Another way to gain experience is help other people with their layouts. There are several active modelers in the Omaha area, with layouts that need as few as 4 people tooperate up to layouts that neeed 20 or more. Check out the Omaha model railroad Yahoo group. NCE and Easy DCC seem to be the most popular DCC systems.