Formal dining cars on Indian trains are uncommon. Instead many trains have had on-board kitchens, with food-brought back to rooms/seats. Other services provide food loaded at select stations, based on orders forwarded by train crews. The Southern RY used to do this on trains like the “Royal Palm” in the 1960s after their diners were withdrawn, but only a very limited sandwich/fried chicken sort of menu was offered.
As a pasionate supporter of diner service I absolutely do not want to see this as a replacement of traditional food service on US trains (and I can see real on-board sanitation issues if Amtrak passengers and crew failed to clean-up after such meals were consumed, if they became the only food option), but there may be something here that could, for example, relieve Amtrak of the need for providing the staff for complete on-board food preparation, while still allowing entrees to be served fresh and hot. A diner could still be the venue.
Credible rumors out of Amtrak suggest that begining in May some sort of “catered entrees” will be added to the SILVER STAR for service from the overwhelmed cafe car, but apparently with no advanced way to gauge demand for specific items and with no added staff. If typical Amtrak/Boardman
I think on the Superliner Diners they should have one of those lift up canopy type flaps on the first level so they can serve clients on the platform if it is one of those 20 minute station stops…plus they need one of those “kiddie music” generators like ice cream trucks have that they can play as the train is rolling to a stop in the station vs. ringing the locomotive bell. That should increase dining car sales.
Great idea–but wait–it would require Amtrak to provide enough staff to set up the canopy and enough food to sell. Couldn’t do that!
I actually used the Southern’s “Order a Sandwich/Fried Chicken” service twice. The food varied by where it was ordered (and I presume who prepared it), but it was alot fresher than what I might have brought from home. I’ve also “enjoyed” Subway and KFC meals ordered enroute (admitedly by Amtrak staff without consulting those wanting to eat) on Amtrak several times when HEP failures knocked out cooking on-board.
I freely admit this entire discussion seems sad, but the threat posed by the combination of Libertarian fanatiscism from Congressman like John Mica and cowardise in standing up to them from Amtrak makes a food-service collapse not at all inconceiveable.
The post-May 1 catered experiment on the SILVER STAR will be interesting to watch. The sad thing is that Amtrak long-ago proved on the ACELA EXPRESS in First Class and on the CARDINAL diner-lite that done-right (with adequate staff and served in a proper way) catered/reheated food can be quite good–but trying to make one employee prep/heat/plate/serve hot entrees with 150 people waiting in line for sandwiches, snacks and booze as well just won’t/can’t work. But sadly that appears to be what the Boardman plan is for “improving” things on the SILVER STAR. I will be very happy to be wrong on this!
Amtrak’s deficit producing dining car service can only be fixed with think outside of the box ideas. My feeling is the onboard dining car on Long Distance trains will always loose money because the ridership on those same trains is not enough to support it financially. You could close that revenue gap by increasing the average ticket in the dining car but your never going t
I can’t envision any firm wanting to bid on a dining-car contract with an arrangement as proposed by CMStP&P. The upfront costs look like they would be pretty steep (dining cars, cafeterias in stations, etc.) and the potential clientele is quite small. An arrangement as proposed might also require re-negotiation of existing labor contracts.
Then dump the dining car service altogether, keep a snack car and have the LD train stop for 2-3 hours once a day (maybe twice a day) so a full service meal can be had at or near a major Amtrak station. Amtrak could distribute vouchers, possibly make reservations prior to train arrival and ask for a commission back from the restaurants involved. Another alternative and since Amtrak is no longer interested in LD Train average speed or timekeeping of any sort it seems…probably feasible time wise.
Not feasible on a track occupancy basis unless Amtrack would build it’s own sidings where FW&R would take place; carriers value their track space. Could the FW&R be extended to 36 hours on the ticket like it was for livestock by executing the proper paragraph of the Bill of Lading
Is this a serious idea? That Amtrak stop each of its LD trains for 2 to 3 hours in order that (former) dining car patrons can eat at at nearby restaurant? C’mon, really?
What if I want breakfast and lunch? Does the train stop twice, each time for 2 to 3 hours? What about passengers who don’t want to eat or carry their own food? Do they have to wait 2 to 3 hours several times a day, while other passengers disembark and, what? walk to a nearby establishment? In all kinds of weather? Is the local restaurant supposed to have enough staff on hand for the 2 to 3 hours the passengers will be there? I don’t think many cooks and servers will want to work only that few hours. What about weekends? Must the restaurant be open on Sundays? Sunday mornings? Who gets sued if Mrs. Jones slips and falls on her way to the restaurant? Will Kosher meals be found in North Dakota or Arkansas? What provisions will be made for handicapped passengers?
Yes, I know CMStPnP was being sarcastic, but I get nervous just reading such an idea! And as far as trying to find a food service to operate under Amtrak’s rules and still make a profit, good luck with that!
It seems to me that no matter which way you look at it, dining cars on LD trains make sense. What’s needed is an Amtrak management that has convictions and will fight aggressively and intelligently for those convictions.
Well on a serious note, Look up the past practices of the Santa Fe Railway. Used to be they would stop the train for passengers that wanted a good meal at the Fred Harvey Restaurant or stay overnight in the Fred Harvey Hotel…why? Because the Passenger Trains back then were largely without dining cars and sleeping cars. Railroad management added those later and both are money losers now because instead of charging for at least part of their true costs, Amtrak discounts both in order to make them more affordable to the traveling public. Why not charge closer to the costs of both improve the offerings on both and close the LD train deficit more? A question that can only be answered by a politician.
You know another idea I had would be allowing Class I railroads bid on Amtrak LD passenger services as a fixed profit contract and allow them to couple the Amtrak train at the back of a long distance intermodal train, maybe behind the pusher locomotive. Also, reduce some of the intermediate station stops to speed the schedule more. Then allow the Class I’s to innovate with cost reduction on the passenger side. Pay Amtrak only to depart Union Station and tow the train to the nearest intermodal yard for coupling on the back of the intermodal train…then the Amtrak engine crew is done and returns back with power to Union Station.
Class I railroad gets an extra kicker in profit to one of it’s intermodal trains, Amtrak still responsible for liability and getting the train to and from intermodal yard and station plus Class I has a say in reducing passenger train costs and attracting more service potentially on their other LD intermodal trains.
One question: what happens if none of the Class I railroads or larger regionals want to place a serious bid on such an operation?
I remember attending the discontinuance proceedings for the “Blue Bird” way back in 1968 or 1969. One of the alternatives put forth by N&W was to attach a coach and sleeping car on the “Road Runner”, the overnight Chicago-St. Louis TOFC schedule. The alternative was deemed not feasible due to the added expense of a switch run to bring the passenger cars to the TOFC terminal and the possible delays to the freight train schedule. I’m not sure that the proposal by CMStPnP is very different from that.
Try giving each train two dining cars…under this scenario. Coach passengers get a dining car that provides and serves “fast food” style meals, appropriately priced(to cover costs) with appropriately paid employees. Sleeping car passengers get a dining car that produces and serves “sit-down” style meals, again, appropriately priced(to cover costs) with the current dining car staff.
Or, to put it more simply, just charge the damn price needed to cover your costs, people will pay for good food, regardless of class of passenger.
Amtrak basically does that already, they have the snack area in the lower level of the lounge where they sell many food items below what it costs them to stock them on a moving train.
Then they have the Dining Car and what throws me for a loop here is sometimes the Dining Car is cut in half, with one half being a snack car and the other a full service diner…seems to me one of the snack areas is a waste of space and drives up the cost of the train more. However I noticed when two snack areas are in existence on the Texas Eagle the crew uses the half of the dining car that is a snack area that remains closed permanently for the whole trip as a break area.
In my view they need to raise prices in both areas. The snack area and the dining car itself BUT the dining car more so. I am not sure when or why Amtrak took the position that selling food should be an onboard charity service BUT that attitude has to go in light of their large deficit.
More or less happening already. There’s the dining car with sit-down service. Sleeper passengers are given first dibs. Usally room enough for coach passengers as well, although on leaving LA on the Southwest Chief recently, the first night the dining car was declared sold out once the sleeper passengers made their dinner reservations. Not the case next night.
Then there’s the café downstairs in the lounge-sightseer car and there’s sometimes an option for coach passengers to get a meal from the dining car at a lower price delivered to their seat (the promotion of this option is quite inconsistent in my experience and could be done better).
So that’s 3 options for getting food, at different pricing levels.
You think passengers will pay $30-50 for a dining experience like that of the early 60s? On the City of Los Angeles 1967, they offered a special charbroiled steak full dinner (alcoholic beverage extra) for $5.75. That converts to $40.82 in 2016 money. Doubtful.
As an aside point, a former dining car steward (City of Los Angeles) once related that the train hit a wall of snow in Wyoming. The diner started to run out of food. They went to a nearby rancher and used a voucher to buy hogs and other commodities. The crew butchered animals and provided food while they waited for a snow plow to dig them out.
They paid it back then, though. (I had one of those dinners in 1968 on the City of Portland, and it was worth every penny.) Amtrak charges a pretty fair price – in the $25 vicinity, I think – for their shoe leather, and even tho my sleeping-car fare includes it, I go with the hot dog or mac and cheese. (And wine, lots of wine.)
I’d cheerfully put another $15 with the $25 to get a decent piece of meat.
I remember back when the Superliners first hit the rails 1979 or 1980…
The lounge had an attendant upstairs making mixed drinks at the bar as well as serving soda and some light snacks. The guy downstairs was more into the light meals and there was a piano down there as well. Thats the last time I remember the Car attendants entering the lounge car and asking for drinks / food for the coach passengers and walking it back to them.
Have to agree with BaltACD on this. Back then there was a real Chef in the Dining car and they knew how to handle butchered meat and also had on board equipment more appropriate for that. The Amtrak downstairs kitchen does not have a lot of the former equipment the earlier diners had like for example a char or coal grill.
My suspicion based on the food is the Amtrak guy in the kitchen is Chef in title only and has none of the formal training you would find in a regular for profit restaurant and I would further venture to guess that beyond the very basics or stray from the recipe cards too much and they are useless. Similar to cooks in the Armed Forces, they can prepare food they were trained on or that is prepackaged but get beyond that into something fancy and your rolling the dice.