All right, in “the real world” one area that I’m modelling has a plastics company, and a feed mill, both served by rail; however there is also a paint can plant (my actual job) and a lead recycling place. Both are currently truck-served only. I was thinking about making them both rail-served industries as well as truck-served. I know that the paint can plant recieves its plastic pellets from the plastics company (we’re actually part of the same family of companies) by truck, and ships out by truck, but what I was thinking is that I could modify things and get to where there are shipments made by rail (would need boxcars for such I’d imagine). I guess my “real” question would be, what type of rail cars would the lead recycling plant need?
I know that they get used batteries in by the truckload (so they could also possibly get them in by the boxcar load) and ship out the lead by the truckload (also conceivbly (sp?) by the boxcar load), but what else would be able to be shipped by rail. I know that I would have a busy enough place with just the plastics company and feed mill (the local shortline seems to always be busy shuffling cars around), but I was thinking of adding more cars to bring my upcoming layout more to life.
On a side note, there is also a cold storage/freezer goods company that is not directly rail served, but at least once every week to two weeks a refridgerated car is cut loose and the goods are loaded onto a truck and carried in from there, so I know I could model that also.
In the long run, any help would be greatful on this one.
A company called Phoenix Closures on the BNSF gets plastic pellets in covered hoppers. If you Google aerial map Naperville, Illinois and run west along the BNSF, you can see the hoppers sitting on the spur. Product is shipped out by truck though. If they shipped by rail, I’m sure they’d use general service boxcars.
The paint can company would get plastic pellets in large covered hoppers. The cans would be shipped out in boxcars, either plain unequipped 50 footers or large 60 foot high cube cars (empty paint cans would cube out before they weight out).
The lead recyler would get used batteries in 50 ft plain boxcars and ship lead out in 50 ft plain boxcars. Optional loadings would be gondolas or recycled rotary dump gons for scrap service (battery casings and material that can’t be reprocessed) that would route to a hazmat waste dumpsite and possibly tank cars for spent acid to be taken to be reprocessed.
The lead recycler was the one I was most curious about. I work at the paint can plant, and we get our plastic pellets by truck from the plastics plant basically right next door to us (actually we’re part of the same company). So, all I’d really need to model for the can plant would be the 50ft boxes, or the high-cubes for outgoing loads. Thanks y’all for the help… Now I’ve gotta research the other industries in the area and figure out what the normal loads for them are.
The feed mill is the easiet, 3 and 4 bay covered hoppers in as loads of grain, empties out. I’ve also got an adjacent town that has a Mayo plant, but as far as I can tell, they get tank cars in, trucks loaded with mayo out. Any idea what is in the tank cars, vinegar (I would guess) but what else?
Most processed foods have some amount of corn / vegetable oil and / or corn sweeteners in them. Check the label on a mayo jar - bet you’ll find some kind of vege oil (from tank cars).
The feed mill could get boxcars of cotton seed hulls (bulk), covered hoppers of DDG (dried distiller’s grain), cottonseed meal, tank cars of corn syrup or vegetable oil inbound and might ship boxcars outbound of bagged feed.
Mayo would be as suggested vegetable oil or corn syrup in tanks, jars and lids in boxcars.
Yeah, I knew it could be shipped in gaylords (that’s actually how we send some of our paint can parts out (plastic rings and sometimes lids) and our plastic comes from our sister production company, which recycles plastic.
I didn’t think about veggie oil as far as the mayo plant, so there could be tank cars of vegetable oil, and tanks with vinegar…with ship-out by truck. The feed mill brings in covered hoppers of raw material (I’m guessing grain, but I can’t be sure) and ships it back out in 18-wheeler hoppers (which typically go the chicken farms since the feed mill is associated with a chicken company). Well, that gives me hope that I can use most of the cars that I already have for the local industries, and then buy a few extras to take care of the industries south of me that I’m going to model.
I’m not sure of your era, but my first fulltime job (San Leandro CA, late 50’s early 60’s) was across the street from a Sherwin-Williams plant that printed can labels on sheet steel, cut and assembled them into cans for canneries around California. Rolls of steel arrived in gondolas with two rows of 4x4 attached to the floor. Empty cans were shipped in boxcars, conveyers delivered cans to the car and men with forks with many tines picked up cans loading them crosswise with empty end toward car center, boxes of lids were just inside the door. At the canneries they were unloaded in reverse. Scrap steel was shipped in gondolas. I’m not sure about ink.
I’m sure the mayo co. receives veggie oil in tank cars. Don’t go to the plant to see how it’s made; you’ll never eat mayo again.
First the paint can issue. Sounds like you are making plastic pails and not cans. The reason they are trucked is they are probably all going to a fairly local filler. It would cost a fortune to ship a load of mostly air any distance eitrher by truck or rail. My father in law was part of a team of engineers that knew they could build a massive styrofoam cup facility that could undercut the cost of manufacture and make huge profits until they went on line and found out why most of the plants are small and have local captive markets due to the shipping cost.
Now to the lead. I would think that there would be great concern about shipping used batteries in any railroad car without some form of corrosion resistant material which would call for a dedicated specialy equipped car with an epoxy or rubber lining. If you figure the average weight of a battery at 40# and it occupies one cubic foot you can then do the following calculation. four axles limited to 80,000# each = 320,000# per car. 320,000/40 = 8000 batteries potentially per load. 50’ long box car x 9 foot wide inside by 8’ high inside= 50 x9 x 8= 3600 cubic feet of space insde or 3600 batteries at one cubic foot. The result is that the cars will be volume limited not weight limited. Once they get to the plant you have three products to reclaim - lead, lead oxide and plastic. You are also going to have to neutralize the acid so you will need incoming shipments of sodium hydroxide (lye) or lime to do that before dumping the liquid waste stream in the sewer. Outgoing the lead plates could be gondola shipped. The plastic could be shredded and covered hopper shipped (if ground into small enough pieces) but the lead oxide poses a problem. It is installed as a paste onto the cell plates. I would think the easiest thing to do subject to cost would be to dry it and ship it as a powder in bags or a covered hopper back to the manufactur
I’m going to make a SWAG here but I’d think the EPA would mandate more complete waste processing of the neutralized acid before dumping it, so it could give you a reason to have some chemical tanks and piping as part of your plant if you want some added visual interest. Maybe some airscrubbers somewhere to handle lead dust? Or how about recycling the acid and shipping it back out via tank car? Sounds like a rainy day Web project - see what battery recycling places do with all the goodies…
Make sure any hoppers you get have the individual hatches, not contious. Atlas makes 5800 and 5701 in N scale although I could only find the 5701 in HO. The 5800’s a rather HUGE in real life. Atlas models are based off AC&F cars with 4 bays, phneumatic center discharge chutes, and 10 centered hatches, although the one I’ve seen I recall seeing two sets of 10-12 hatches. I really wish I had a camera then.
Yeah, I guess you’re right about us, we are making paint pails (although I’ll always call them paint cans). As far as the lead plant is concerned, Lime is shipped in by truck to the plant (could rail-serve it), the Lead is smelted into bars and shipped back out via truck (again, could rail-serve), the plastic is sent over the the adjacent plastics recycling plant (of which us over in the paint can plant are a division of) and from there its either shipped out by rail, or shot over to us by truck. I have no clue what happens to the lead and the lead sulfide, but you guys give me good ideas on how to create more business and industry by shipping those products out by either rail or truck.
I’ve already got some covered hoppers, and they are 10 hatch ACF type cars. I think I’ll use the continuous-type covered hoppers for the feed mill, they seem to be more fitting.
In my previous post I mentioned my first fulltime job. It was at a furniture (upholstered) mfg. company. We received lumber and felt (rolled cotton batting) and shipped furniture by rail or truck all dependent on COST. Cotton from came by rail, California cotton usually by truck. Lumber from , or BC by rail, cotton usually by truck. When we had enough furniture orders for a geographical area we combined them and sent by rail.
This brings up another suggestion; the products received by truck may have come from a local bulk rail/truck transfer facility. I know of a large bulk rail/truck transfer facility in Sacramento, CA and another in Ft. Lauderdale, These places work similar to team tracks except the track space is leased by the user, trucker, shipper or receiver. These yards handle a multitude of products.
I didn’t think about the bulk rail/truck transfer idea, I might be able to swing that, I’ll just have to find out a little more information about where the trucks are coming from/going to.
The transload terminal I ride by twice a day transfers foodstuffs from tankers, covered hoppers, and an occasional boxcar. Looks like product all goes out on trucks.
The transload facility is the modern equivalent of the team track - you can spot almost anything there unless it’s specifically dedicated to certain items.
Yeah, I’ve seen a couple here and there, but haven’t really paid attention to them (I was younger, didn’t always think about trains). Oh well, just gives me more research to do.
How convenient - I work in a plastic factory (we make plates, to-go containers, &c).
inbounds:
machinery pieces (nuts & bolts) via UPS; new machines via truck; cardboard boxes in bundles via truck; rolls of plastic via truck; plastic powder via bulk truck; plastic pellets via covered hopper; coloring agents in gaylords via truck
outbounds:
scrap plastic in gaylords via truck; for-sale product in boxes and on skids via truck
Anything in a truck could be put in a a Triple Crown trailer for later rail shipment. * hint hint * Most things in a truck could be put in a railcar (GP 40-ft box) instead if we wanted huge shipments. We are a food-related industry so we need our outbound cars to be CLEANed and not leaky.
We’re not food related, but still a leaky, filthy boxcar would be not an ideal situation considering that we’re making paint cans and our customers whine and complain when there’s just dust on them.