Well I am moving into my new place next month and will finally have some room for a much anticipated layout and am looking for some help in the design process. My goal is a small HO scale shelf switching layout, similar to what Lance Mindheim has achieved with his two layouts. I really like the idea of a layout that mimics the actual prototype and after doing a bunch of searching I have found a smallish Industrial spur that I would like to model and is close enough to me that I can visit it in person
The issues I am having now is with selective compression and designing a plan that will stay true to the real world line, but fits my available space while still providing good operations. I am looking for any advice, help or opinions that will help me get a good plan.
Here is what I am working with:
10’ by 12’ft space, max width of 2’ for the shelves, No windows or doors or anything else to worry about, Looking for the layout to have the ability to break down in a couple sections for future moves, and I am open to using removable staging. If you follow the link to bing maps below the line is between pin #3 (Novamerican Steel) through Industry #8 (Arley Wholesale), best viewed in birds eye or ariel view. Thanks in advance fellas.
Have you got any preliminary sketches/drawings that you could share with us? If we had a basic idea of what you had in mind, it might be easier for us to give useful advice.
I’ve noticed you’ve said you’re comfortable with removable staging, and I have a tutorial here outlining a simple way of implementing traverse-table staging - which can save the cost and space of a yard ladder. Some of the ideas may possibly be adapted to cassette staging.
Looks simple enough, single ended single track between two rows of industries. Two single ended industry spurs branching off to the left, two single ended industry spurs branching off to the right,
Six rail served industries (two are on the main track - one at the start of the track, one at the end of the track).
All spurs facing spurs as you head down the track, so all moves will be shoving cars into spurs ahead of your engine.
First industry spur on the left goes through a small building (ie internal loading/unloading dock), One industry has tank cars unloaded from the “main spur” into trackside tanks, rest are conventional external loading docks.
Buildings are of the types sold by Pikestuff (i.e. currugated metal) and Great West Models (i.e. prefab concrete). Access to track might be a little hard if you model buildings on both sides of the track, but it is entirely possible to model buildings just on one side of the track and just the loading docks on the aisle side of the layout.
You got a 10 x 12 foot space. Not clear from your description if you want to have shelves along two walls (ie 22 feet of length), three walls or four walls (with a duckunder or liftout), but in any case, you seem to have more space available than say the 15-18 feet or so you would need to model this spur without any significant compression.
Hi Stein, I think he means to include all 30 industries he has listed on Bing - from Vine Street in the south all the way up to Wetzel Road in the north. You have to zoom out a bit. This makes it much more complicated (and interesting) Justin
Well, you certainly have a nice size space to work with. You are also off to a great start with the theme and the fact that you can actually visit your site. As far as the design goes, I would be methodical about it.
Draw your room to scale
Border the walls only with bench work. 24" is o.k. but probably wider than you need. 18" to 22" is probably more than enough.
Optional: draw a bench work extension into the room 24" wide. (this will just be one more spur. No turnback curves or the main.
Curve Radius: 24". Turnouts No. 6.
Now, here comes my main suggestion, and one that can be hard to swallow. LIMIT THE GEOGRAPHIC SCOPE OF WHAT YOU ARE MODELING. I would think in space like this you are looking at no more than a dozen turnouts. Perhaps one run around. The reason it is often difficult to selectively compress is that the modeler is picking too large of an area/too much scope to try to downsize.
Run the track around the room as a simple loop. You’ll probably need a simple lift out at the door.
Insert the desired industries and spurs along each wall and the center peninsula with an eye towards not getting too greedy as far as fitting too many in. By the time you factor in car spots even a simple plan will keep you plenty busy
On Yahoo’s ‘Proto Layouts’ forum there was an excellent design posted a few months ago. If you search the group look for James McNab’s Grimes Lane design. I think you’ll like it.
Which is consistent with him thinking about a layout like Lance Mindheim’s East Rail layout - an L-shaped layout with a fairly simple (but prototypical) track plan and less than 10 industries:
Anyways - I think we will have to wait for some more information from the OP clarifying how much space he intends to use - he might be thinking about a layout all around all four walls, but “doors and windows are no problems” might be a little on the optimistic side if that is what he is thinking about, and he might be thinking about modeling 30 industries over a larger area instead of 5 or 6 industries along a single spur.
Yep you are right, I am only looking to model that 1 spur with industries 3 through 8. I knew I was going to forget something but I am allotted and L shape layout in a 3 walled room, with the 10’ side spanning between 2 walls, and the 12’ side be open ended allowing me to use removable cassettes if I wanted for staging. I will have to upload a sketch of the room as my description seems a little wordy and confusing [:I]
The problems I seem to have is I’m thinking that I have been using a 1 car to 1 foot ratio when drawing up my plans and as you explained above that by doing the math I had been wasting a lot of spa
"I also seem to always get stuck when it comes to the corner of the L shape, It just seems I am wasting space and I either end up with an empty corner "
But an empty corner is NOT wasted space. It is an important scene separator. Just because an area doesn’t have track doesn’t mean it’s wasted.
Ha, I know I think it’s just a rookie feeling that empty space is wasted space. I’m going to hopefully do some sketches in the next day or two and I will have to keep this in mind.
Looking at the overall area, it obvious this was designed by a model railroader. I mean switch backs, multiple spurs, etc, etc. Looks like a great area to model.
In my opinion (for whatever it may be worth), it is a pretty good guide to the principles behind Lance’s style of switching layouts - foreground/background, transition scenes etc for small shelf layout.
He e.g. discusses how to locate buildings on both sides of the track (between aisle and track as well as between track and backdrop) on a shelf switching layout in such a way that you don’t block yourself off from being able to handle cars at the industries.
But I would have gone for that first book if you are interested in learning more about the thought processes behind some of those layouts of his you admired.
The irony is that from the photograph it looks like maybe one of those industries is actually rail served currently and that doesn’t appear to be active.
If you have a room, what I would do is put the layout around 3 walls. If you will notice the basic structure of the park is a central “spine” lead with spurs breaking off at right angles.
I would put a one or two track staging track behind a low backdrop of building flats or trees along the east wall. The lead would curve onto the north wall and become visible. I would build two long spurs breaking off the lead and running along the east and west walls. Maybe put a runaround and a storage track along the lead.
Operation would be to bring a switcher with cars out of staging up the lead. When I got to the storage track the switcher would drop any cars to be held, dig out any spotters then, in turn, work each lead. When done it would gather up any outbounds and go back down the lead to staging.
Alternative: Put a staging track along both the east and west walls, with the visible portion of the lead along the north wall. Put a spur on both the east and west walls in front of staging. Train starts out of east staging, works both spurs, runs to west staging, simulating it going further up the industrial lead.
Well this is about as good as you get for most of NY. The big thing for me is the rails are still in place, the buildings are still there and although I am modeling it as if Conrail was still around these industries are still currently being serviced by CSX so at least i will be able to still draw from what I can observe the Local going about it’s business.
Unfortunately I only have the two wall L shape available to me but I will take your advice into consideration.
Well the answers in this thread and another I had made has motivated me to start doing some tinkering with a design. This is my preliminary design, I tried to stick to the prototype as best as possible but some of the industries have switched sides of the main branch. I also realized I have one less foot available so working in a 10’x11’ L shaped area this is what I have come up with. The tank car unloading facility will be on the passing siding. Opinions?
Sorry about that, here is a picture with labels. Yes there will be a removable extension off the lower left similar to what you use on your East Rail layout. Thanks again1
I like the simplicity of your plan. It looks good. A famous designer, maybe John Armstrong, said something about keeping all turnouts facing the same direction, except one. Keeping with that thought, maybe relocate industry number 5 to the left, way back near the curve, and have it served by a left hand trailing turnout between the other two, just next to industry 6’s switch. The present industry 5 spur could be its switch lead.
It might not be exactly keeping with the prototype, but it might add a bit of interest and more use for the passing siding (runaround). Not sure about industry 3 on the siding then, however.
I see what you are trying to do now. The simplicity of your idea puts you in the nice position of being able to do your planning in 1:1 scale using actual track components. What you’ve drawn so far is sound so I’d get away from trying to come up with the perfect plan. You have enough to start…now.
Your bench work dimensions are based on circumstances and thus are pretty much fixed. That’s not a problem as it defines your scope. Get the bench work up and design around that. Take what you’ve drawn and purchase the Atlas code 83 components to construct it. The part number for the curve using Atlas sectional track is #536. The turnouts are #563 and #564. Lay the track in place secured with a touch of white glue. The turnouts can be thrown manually just by flipping the points with your finger.
Lay some sheets of paper down to represent the industries, hook up some power, and operate it to see what you think. If you aren’t happy, just pop the track up and make adjustments.
Go trackside and observe them switching it as much as you can. Depending on the RR some crews are approachable and will explain things to you. Others are wary or governed by strict rules and can’t talk.
Time to put down the computer mouse and pick up the saw and X-acto blades.
