how do i install a decoder in an engine that isn’t set up for dcc. how do i do it and how much would it cost
It can be anywhere from very easy to impossible. Tell us the scale and the loco, and someone can probably give a pretty good answer. Some are not worth converting.
How does the loco run on DC? If it is a poor running loco then DCC isn’t going to make it run better. A loco that doesn’t have the plug will run you on average 20-30 dollars for a cheap decoder and plug.
It’s necessary to make sure the motor is “isolated” from the engine frame. On older engines, the manufacturers frequently made the engine frame, the motor frame and one side of the motor “brushes” all the same electrical circuit. With a DCC decoder, this just won’t work, as you need to be able to “flip” the polarity of the brushes even if the frame doesn’t change.
Most engines made now are “DCC Ready” to some extent. That term is used pretty loosely. In some cases, it means that the motor is already isolated. In others, it means that there’s a plug installed that will take the appropriate decoder with no soldering or wiring required. In at least one engine I’ve got, “DCC Ready” meant little more than there was room for a decoder inside the shell, after I isolated the motor from the frame and soldered in the connections.
The bad news? If you hook up the decoder incorrectly, it’s possible to immediately toast it and make it useless. That’s a fact of life. (I’ve toasted a few myself.) You might want to start with a TCS decoder. They offer a goof-proof warantee, and they’ll replace a burned out decoder even if it was a user error which did the toasting.
The “how” will depend greatly on the locomotive in question. In many cases you may actually be able to find DCC install examples for your model on the web. There are several sites that list examples. It may require soldering. It may require significant disassembly and modification of the model. It will also depend on things like lighting and the lamps or LED’s used.
The “how much” will depend on what you want out of the installation. Decent, basic decoders can be had for under $15.00. If you want higher end lighting effects and other features you could spend upwards of $30.00. If you want sound, even more. Adding sound by the way adds complexity to the install as you have to find a location for the speaker, which is not always easy.
We have several articles on the site that will help, including this one:
http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=612
We also offer some PDF download packages and books that will help you get started, and of course each issue of MR includes the column “DCC Corner.” Good luck!
Terry
it’s an ho scale 88’ mantua. i probaly should just buy a new engine but i really like this one and want it to run with my other engines. i forgot it is a gp20 if that helps.
If the engine runs well on DC power without any really serious flaws then it is a candidate for DCC.
All we are doing is isolating the motor from the frame and putting a computer chip on it to control it. That is the essence of DCC. Everything else is either eye or ear candy.
Having said that, it becomes a process or a journey of selecting a decoder, wiring, tools, reference materials, studing and learning wire colors, LED vs analog light bulbs, stall current etc etc etc.
OR you could buy a new engine like the one you own when they do make one with DCC. If you really like it and it’s a keeper then try to put DCC into it.
Me? I had two Atlas RS-1 classics and sent them out to Tony’s to have the decoders and sound installed there. I find the cost to be a little over 100 dollars per engine depending on final costs and shipping. I bought the RS1s as a set out of a hobby shop in Pittsburgh for 60 bucks and they are just flawless in operation. So the total when the day is over should be comparable with QSI Factory equippted retail DCC engines in costs.
One of the reasons I did this is I have some damage in the nerves among other issues and choose to have a professional who knows the model and decoder do the work. That way it should be done right.
Now it is much cheaper to install a decoder yourself if you have the right tools and skills to do it. Much cheaper and probably more satisfying so that when something goes wrong, you can find it rather quickly and fix it.
So there you have it. My approach to a sound and DCC equippted engine from a good analog units.
While it is a bit on the pricey side, I just brought a loco to someone who, among other things, installs decoders on non-DCC locos and when all is said and done, the final price of the loco, the decoder and the install was about 10-15$ greater than a DCC-equipped loco. He even programmed the loco to my specs as part of the deal. To me it was worth it to spend the few extra bucks. Two other locos turned out to be a lot higher for a DCC retro fit, on the order of an estimated additional 50$ which I took a pass on.
I dont think I explained adequately the price point of DCC installations.
two RS1 = 60 dollars
two 84002 decoders = @ 120 dollars after discount, at least 140 retail.
wiring, speakers shipping? eh, call it 50 bucks both ways.
labor to install… oh ya that L word… approx 100 per engine. = 200 total.
At the end of the day we are looking at a total of…drumroll please…
$430.
Now I could order two Atlas Gold GP7s already equipped with sound and DCC from QSI for about the same cost MSRP and do the same work on my railroad.
Makes one think about the costs about that now doesnt it? If Atlas woke up one day and issued two Atlas RS1’s with QSI in Gold series for 250 each retail the cost will be over 500 dollars for the pair… if they ever do it.
If I had a set of two crappier engines that need DCC installs like a tyco trainset deisel… well… I would throw them away and go buy the GP7’s LOL. No question.
There are engines that run like a brick no matter what you control them with. You dont want to turn it into a Goldbrick Shortline choo choo. The analog unit needs to be of good quality all around to behave well on DCC.
Oh, if you install it yourself? You wont have the shipping or the labor costs but a good soldering iron will run you about 60 dollars in addition to the wires, speakers and decoders.
so your saying i just nedd to buy the decoder. then install it??
You can.
Or have a professional install it for you.
Or buy a dcc equipped engine.
Or buy a DCC ready engine and plug in your own decoder.
Or hardwire a decoder into a older engine.
Your choices. Each path has it’s pros and cons.
The two RS1’s arrived this morning.
They were placed onto the track one by one to verify running and addresses.
Then Mu’ed together with the DT400 and video taped.
They are not as loud as the QSI units Im used to.
Without further ado:
http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x173/fallsvalleyrr/?action=view¤t=RS1DecoderArrival.flv
You guys are paying WAY too much for installs. I charge no where NEAR what you are quoting.
David B