I’m trying to install a tortoise switch machine beneath two inches of foam plus 1/4 plywood plus cork. With nearly 2.5 inches of wire, it is difficult to get the switch points to move. Has anyone else solved this problem? I have seen the youtube video of installing the tortoise from on top and it doesn’t work for me. Does the remote controller which installs the tortoise horizontally instead of vertically work since it seems to turn wire side to side instead of this big mass of wire that needs to be moved from underneath. Any suggestions?
Hi Cptsail:
If I understand correctly, the problem is that the wire is too flexible to really move the switch points?
This is a common challenge with Tortoise switch machines as the stock wire supplied with them is too thin if a long length is used. I also use thick foam for my layout base, and replace the stock wire with 0.032 inch piano wire. That solves the problem.
If you have a local hobby shop they may have some, otherwise fast tracks (http://www.handlaidtrack.com/Tortoise-Switch-Machine-Throwbar-Wire-s/2039.htm[](http://www.handlaidtrack.com)) sells it as an upgrade for the Tortoises.
Good luck,
Mike
The over/misuse of foam board on layouts boggles this mind.
I upgrade the wire to .039 diameter. Make sure to center it in the hole or make the bottom (unseen) part of the hole a bit larger.
While I agree that his base is extremely over-engineered, I’m not sure that the term “misuse” is appropriate. Perhaps a more constructive suggestion would help the OP.
OK: Next time, don’t use foam.
I use .039 wire. I drill a 1/4" hole from the cork then drill out the plywood 1/2". use a 1/2" brass tube up from the bottom to the bottom of the cork roadbed, but not through the cork. smooth the top of the cork with sandpaper. the brass tube cuts the foam out for better clearance of the wire. I also line the tortise with the wire in it on top of the track, with both the switch machine and points in center position, then mark the screw holes and drill through the foam and plywood with a peice of .039 wire in the drill. Make sure the drill is straight :(… the wire will drill through thru the plywood…just don’t force it, let the weight of the drill do the work. This will line the machine up very nicely…no ‘tweaking’
I have 4 inches of foam, now what? I can dig down 4" below track grade for below track scenery.
WHat I don;t understand is the hatred of foam base. Just because people used boards and risers 50 years ago doesn;t mean it was the greatest and best of all time. I still think L girder is overdone and a waste of wood. WHy is foam so horrible? It’s easy to work with, more dimensionally stable than wood, and lets you build up and down. What more do you need? It’s also plenty sturdy and light weight. I’m sorry, but since my layout is no more than 2’ wide I do not now nor EVER need to walk on it.
Anyway, as to the OP’s issue - there is NO PROBLEM mounting switch motors below this. Like I said, I have FOUR inched of foam, 1/4" plywood, and cork roadbed. My switch motors are servos, but withthe mounting bracket the functionality is exactly like a Tortoise, with the wire rocking back and forth. I use .032 wire. Works fine, the points are held firmly in position. So with 2" there will definitely be no problem at all.
The only place I had to do anything differently was where one turnout ended up too close to a crossmember. For that I used the J shaped wire going up through a brass tube a few ties away from the throwbar. That is not something that you would have to do unless you had the same problem. Where the switch motor is right under the turnout, just pgrade to the .032 wire and you’ll be fine.
–Randy
I agree that the wire provided with the Tortoise is too flexible to be used where the distance between the Tortoise and the turnout throwbar is greater than 1/2".
I don’t know why Circuitron persists in using the thin gauge wire that is included with every Tortoise. I talked to them about it a few years ago when I called them on another issue. They believe that the wire gauge is adequate.
In any event, in my experience, a minimum wire gauge of 0.039 is necessary for longer distances than 1/2". I keep a supply of 0.39 gauge music wire from K&S Engineering on hand at all times.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/370-497
Rich
Some have never tried using foam so they don’t know any better.
As to the OP, the earlier post is correct. Simply make the wire hold a little larger and use thicker wire. You can get it any RC hobby shop.
MIke;
It is often said that the more complex a problem, the simpler is the solution. You nailed it, kid. Good job!
EF-3 yellowjacket
Someone building a layout has been chronicling the steps he has been taking through you tube videos. Here’s Part A of installing tortoise motors under 2 inches of foam.
Dear Friends
What are the advantages of using a Tortoise machine versus the standard (e.g., Atlas) switch?
I thought foam was supposed to be used on all layouts because of its sound-abatement properties and because it gives the modeler a way to create terrain relief.
I have no idea, though.
–Jaddie
The 2 main advantages I’ve experienced are.
-
The turnouts are slow motion and allows a smoother and more prototypical look when switching.
-
Torti’s use stall motors and always have power on them. Because of this they will hold the switch point against the rail and prevent it from moving when the train crosses it. The result is reduced chance of derailments.
Dear Hamltnblue
Thank you for responding and educating me.
–Jaddie
See the recent thread, Is foam board really required?, for more in-depth Pros/Cons of foam for model railroading layouts – There are some really good responses here. Foam is not an “all layouts” solution – But neither is any one specific material whether foam, plywood, homasote, etc.
For example: My above thread-response outlines how foam for my specific needs for the CR&T would not provide the layout-base strength & stability rquired to anchor traction layout poles for overhead wire. But, I am not adverse to use of foam for shaping scenery. Also, in the past, I’ve used Atlas turnouts/machines, but am considering using tortoise motors.
Foam/Tortoise Question: What is the best way(s) to attach/anchor a Tortoise under the layout (especially for this thread’s purposes) if one is using foam-only as a layout base?
Hi Tgindy:
Using construction adhesive, I glue a 0.100 inch thick styrene plate to the bottom of the foam in the location where the tortoise will be required. This is thick enough to give screws something to hold on to. You should roughen the gluing side of the styrene with very course sand paper to ensure the glue will grip it, and make sure you use a foam compatible glue.
Others have said they glue on masonite or plywood, same idea and should work as well. I use styrene sheet as I can score it with a x-acto type knife and then snap it, no power tools required.
Just recently I’ve been trying good quality indoor/oudoor two sided carpet tape to attach the styrene plate, as I hate waiting for glue to dry. So far so good. I also use 1 1/2 inch long #6 metal screws that grip into the styrene as well as into the foam just to help everything stay where it is supposed to be.
Regards,
Mike