I need to gap my non DCC turnout frog rail. I do not have any insulated rail joiners. I do not plan on caulking down my turnouts so, if I just gap the rail, nothing is going to hold down the turnout. The LHS has the insulated joiners but I don’t even know what they look like. Is this the way to go?
BB
I don’t know what a non-DCC turnout frog rail is, but I presume the turnout has a hot frog. It is irrelevant to the topic of gaps anyway… The insulated rail joiners have a small tab of plastic that goes up between the rails. If a simple gap is cut there is the possibility of the rails expanding, shifting, and working back together so the gap gets closed. To get around this problem, without using insulated rail joiners, one can epoxy a piece of styrene plastic into the gap after it is cut.
Squirt some Ambroid glue into the freshly-cut gap. After it’s dry, dress with a file or emory board.
One sure thing is, if you don’t put a physical barrier between the cut ends, they will eventually find a way to get into contact. The good news is that a very small thickness of any kind of insulating material is enough to keep 18vpp electricity under control.
Happy gapping.
Chuck
If you have the capability, i would just solder it. Then after the solder sets, sand it down and buff it out. Then youll have a very smooth turnout
Bruce
INSULATED rail joiners are so cheap, and your hobby shop has them.
A piece of styrene can be used to fill the gap - prevent shorts and bounce - but requires cementing to prevent shifting, and trimming with an Xacto knife to prevent flange engagement.
Texansoldier
SOLDERING across an insulated gap creates a permanant shorting of the gap, not to mention other problems.
gap it then fill the gap with epoxy
Insulated joiners look just like the normal metal ones-only plastic, and in the very center there’s a plastic tab the same size as a rail sticking up to keep the rails apart.
Good luck,
Greg
Use the insulated rail joiners, Bruce. An open gap can shift or expand and the end can touch. Filling the gap with a piece of styrene glued in and filed to shape is a real pain in the sitting parts. I wouldn’t want to permanently attach a turnout to the rails at the ends because if any part of your trackwork will go wrong and need replacing in the future, it’s the turnouts and you want to be able to remove them to replace them. Since you’re not glueing down the turnouts (good idea) you might want to consider putting a couple of track nails through the holes in its ties to keep it from shifting.
How’s the layout coming, Bruce?
that is what i would do…cut the rail clean thru, then glue in some sheet styrene plastic in the gap with CA glue and then take a hobby knife and whittle it down to the shape of the railhead…you can also power the frog…i was looking thru some old MR mags and found where this guy soldered a diode on the left point rail to the frog and then he soldered an opposing diode to the right point rail and then to the frog…this would be a lot easier than using the extra contacts on a tortoise machine or having to install a switch and relay to accompli***he same results…chuck
Chuck
I don’t see how the diode scheme can work or add value.
Using the points to power the frog through diodes assumes both points are electrically linked and the same polarity. If both points are the same polarity it is very rare that the points are insulated from the frog because the points are usually used to directly power the frog through their contact with the stock rail. The switch machine contact is actually a backup in this case to the sometimes poor electrical contact between stock and point rail.
If the points are of opposite polarity (the same as their adjacent stock rail), then there is nothing to change the polarity of the frog when the turnout is thrown.
Finally, the diodes will cause a 0.7 volt drop in track voltage at the frog - might not be a bad thing to have a forced slow down there, but need to be aware that it will happen. If running the frog at real slow speeds, voltage drop would likely cause a stall.
The contact method still appears the best way to power a frog, unless it’s a very special situation such as trains only go through the turnout in one direction or similar.
yours in powering
Fred W
I need to make myself more clear…after further reviewing the article (1972 issue of MR) this works for spring switches only (the article was about building a spring switch) in which a train always goes to the right at a main / siding…(SP uses lots of them on their mainlines so they don’t have to stop and let the brakeman off to throw a turnout switch and also allows for two trains to pass around each other at a siding and a mainline) …power can only go thru a diode one way so if the train always goes to the right in one direction, the track powers the frog…when the train comes from the other direction back onto that track, the wheels pu***he points to the track exiting the siding onto the main and the diode powers the frog from the siding track…so it will work but on a spring switch set-up only…you’re still going to have to do it the other way for forward and reverse track…sorry…about jumping the gun…i just got hold of a bunch of old MRR mags and haven’t had a chance to read them all yet…I saw the diagram of the diodes connecting to the frog and finally sat down and read the article…chuck
Thanks fellas,
I got my good neighbor to pick up some insulated jouners this afternoon. They do seem to be the way to go.
Seamonster, I almost have a continuous loop of track and am nearing the wiring phase.
BB
I use insulated, you cant see them when you paint the rails.
actually…they aren’t the way to go because they are really too flimsy to hold the track together for very long…i used to use them and after a period of time the plastic starts to deteriorate and then they break from fatigue caused by the locomotive and train passing over them all the time, they then crack, and then the track gets out of alignment…another problem is that if you wire for common rail, they are larger than a metal rail joiner and have a tendency to push one rail out further than the other causing one rail to be longer than the other. and then the track won’t line up right…most modelers will cut right thru the rail with a dremel tool cut off wheel or cut thru it with a razor saw, glue a piece of styrene plastic into the gap with CA glue and then whittle it down to the shape of the rail with a hobby knife…chuck
Solder and sand… its the best solution, if I understand what you are talking about. Good luck!
Bruce, you could also put spikes beside those insulated joiners, inside and outside the rails on both sides of the gap (so four spikes…or even more on a tight curve with highly sprung rails), so that the joiners never do experience the stress that Chuck is warning you to stem. On straights, we needn’t be concerned, but on curves, he is right that the plastic will break down and eventually let both rails spring outwar, thus creating a kink through which nothing but a small ore care will pass. So, buttress the rails with wire or spikes right up tight to the rails, and when the joiners stiffen and lose their elasticity, they will remain in place.
Besides, nothing lasts forever. You’ll change things as you go, or have to repair your track in the years to come anyway. It would be nice it it was not because of old, stressed joiners.
And I agree, soldering the joins in curves is the only way to go. Keep the plastic joiners for the exits and every so often on the straights…also between turnouts and their exits.