Assuming this isn’t a practical joke, could this be the beginning of “detente?”
XX3
New York City, NY, Jan. 5, 2009 – XX Electric Trains announced today that it has entered into a multi-year licensing agreement with M.T.H. Electric Trains, in which the Columbia, MD, model train maker will create a new line of tinplate XX Standard and O gauge products. The license will also include tinplate Standard and O gauge offerings for American Flyer, which has been part of XX since its acquisition in 1967.
Using its extensive collection of tinplate tooling, M.T.H. plans to issue new versions of XX and American Flyer classic tinplate trains and accessories that were originally released between 1900 and 1942. These products will be packaged in all-new boxes with iconic XX and American Flyer advertising images and logos from the prewar tinplate era. Promotion of new tinplate XX and American Flyer products will begin in early 2009, with full-color catalogs. A Web site, dedicated to the new product line, will also offer product videos, sound clips and other information not available in print catalogs.
“I’m very pleased that M.T.H. and XX will be working together on this new XX and American Flyer tinplate line,” said Jerry Calabrese, XX CEO. Calabrese went on to say, “In times as difficult and challenging as these, I hope it’s reassuring to all model train fans that both our companies will be joining forces to write a productive new chapter in our hobby’s history. There is no better way to express our mutual belief and commitment to the future of model railroading than for XX and M.T.H. to collaborate on something as imaginative and exciting as these new Tinplate products.
“This collaboration builds on what we’ve accomplished with our Tinplate Traditions line over the past three decades,” noted M.T.H. Pre
It would be good for the hobby if the companies could compete without all the back stabbing that has gone on. I hope this is a sign of things to come. As for the proposed products, I hope they are priced to where a nice set could be had for not a whole lot of money. The market is still rather weak for Pre and Post war trains. I would be more likely to purchase originals and refurbish than pay an excessive amount for MTH’s versions. I say this having looked at prices for other copies that MTH has made.
This sounds like a hoax to me…all of the links I’ve tried to get to the news bulliten on MTH’s website haven’t worked. I don’t really see why MTH has to get Lionel involved to make tinplate trains…I mean, why?? The only guess I can make, and as others have said on other O scale forums, is that they can use the Lionel name, but still I don’t really think that should make much difference. I would hope buyers wouldn’t be lured into a product simply because it has the Lionel brand name on it. Just because Lionel licenses a product doesn’t mean it will have the same quality and running life that an actual Lionel product would have.
If this news is true, I don’t think it was a very wise move. “Joining forces” only means less competition, which means fewer innovations and less products. Neither company will work as hard to make more new locomotives & cars, and make their command systems more versatile, etc., because they are both working together. The reason why Lionel trains have been so well made over the past 15 years or so is because they started to receive some serious competition from MTH, and to survive they had to make better products, and for the most part I think they did. If they join forces with MTH, I wouldn’t be surprised if Lionel returns to something like its “junk stage” of the 70’s and 80’s, because they wouldn’t be competing with all of MTH’s scale locomotives, rolling stock, and accessories – if they’re not already starting down that road with their new product lines, which as far as I understand will be more emphasis on train sets and less on scale offerings and more “top-of-the-line” products.
If true, it’s almost certainly about the fact that MTH has been copying the trade dress that is owned by Lionel for Lionel and Flyer tinplate trains, and yet cannot put the proper name on the side of the item. I for one will not buy a tinplate repro with “MTH” on the side when it should say “Lionel” or “American Flyer.” A lot of people are of the same mind. So this way, MTH gets to do legally what they have been doing illegally (using Lionel’s trade dress), and they get to use the right name on the repro, and Lionel gets its deserved licensure fees. Seems a win-win proposition if they can pull it off, and not bad for the hobby in any way shape or form. This isn’t about combining the companies, it’s about collaborative marketing of one specific product line, namely reproduction tinplate.
Don’t know if it is true (I have a call in to MTH), but I printed it off their website this a.m.
Don’t know how anyone could see this as a bad event. MTH has a history of producing quality prewar-style gear and by green-lighting the MTH products, Lionel won’t need to divert itself into a niche within a niche.
Despite the references to “joining forces,” the release that Neil posted here reads to me more like a marketing or licensing agreement in which MTH will have the products made and Lionel will allow them to use authentic Lionel / American Flyer names and packaging. Bob Keller will certainly find out more as he has said.
To me, it sounds akin to allowing other companies like Atlas and Weaver to use Lionel’s Railsounds or TMCC technology in their products, which benefits the market as a whole. Or the agreement which allowed Lionel to market K-Line products under the K-Line by Lionel banner. As much as any one knows, the K-Line dies are still owned by Sanda Kan. Though it also remains to be seen what will happen with this agreement in the future.
As far as Lionel returning to the so-called “junk” they once made, as I’ve said many a time, I have loads of those cheaper Lionel MPC and early LTI locos that have never failed nor never needed service. I have so-called cheap MPC locos that still work, after decades of use. There are a good many high end expensive products that cannot make that claim… some don’t work straight out of the box.
The management and financial backers of Lionel must be wary of the economic financial news, having only recently come out of bankruptcy. And Lionel obviously knows they have a diverse customer base to attempt to please, while still making products that are profitable. I would fully expect some cutting back of products made during this period, but that doesn’t mean Lionel is giving up on the scale modelers or going back to the so-call bad ol’ days.
The train buyers of the past couple decades have never had it so good as far as variety. The competition is certainly played a part in this. But no one single company can make everything to please everyone. I already see the companies focusing more on the areas where they are successful, which isn’t necessar
SchemerBob, i don’t think the arrangement necessarily leads to less competition and innovation. There is a whole literature in antitrust and competition law about “joint ventures” between technology companies. Even between competitors, joint ventures can be pro-competitive as a whole. It might be different if ‘XX’ had an extensive tinplate line that they were abandoning, but it seems much more likely that XX does not have the capability, or would not desire, to make the extensive investment needed to get a tinplate line started from scratch. I think the arrangement will broaden the market. I have recently toyed with the idea of getting some tinplate, but would be more likely to if the original brand names were used. I am not a brand loyalist but if I am buying a retro train I want retro brand names.
Lest we forget, they made the original prewar classics for Lionel in the late 80’s. It was Mike’s eye toward creating products that Dick though would compete with Lionel that led to the original breakup in 93/94… It’ll work this time[:-^] Imagine what Dick must be thinking(not that it matters)!
Could this be a sign that MTH might be hurting a little? poor overall sales???
If you look at an MTH reproduction of a 260E and there is an NYC logo instead of a circle L on the vandy tender, that 260E looks all wrong to many people and the NYC logo breaks many a sale.
The most comical part of the deal is all the speculation the experts are blasting forums with. Not so much here. The threads get locked and they spawn into new threads. LMAO.
I see nothing but good here. Lionel is not a player in the prewar market and MTH has all the tooling ready. There are those of us who only buy something with an L on it, and this would appeal to them. This gives MTH additional marketing reach and still allows Lionel and MTH to compete in the “current” O-gauge market while cooperating in the tinplate arena. I think the difference between this time and the early 1990’s blowup is now MTH is established in the O-gauge field where as back then they were just trying to get their foot in the door. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. For my own interest, I would hope at some time some of the Ives 1770 series cars are produced (which were nothing more than Lionel 500 series cars with Ives nameplates).
Agreed. More and more of the more common origionals in decent condition are coming on the market for prices that are as good as or in many cases, better than the repos. Exceptions would be repos of the coveted or rare stuff.
Domain Name: LIONELCORPORATION.COM
Registrant:
MTH Electric Trains, Inc.
7020 Gateway Drive
Columbia, MD 21046
US
Administrative Contact , Technical Contact :
MTH Electric Trains, Inc. davidp@mth-railking.com
7020 Gateway Drive
Columbia, MD 21046
US
Phone: 4103812580
Fax: 4109950495
Record expires on 29-Dec-2013
Record created on 29-Dec-2008
Database last updated on 29-Dec-2008
I think that is the smoking gun. THELIONELCORPORATION.COM was created on 08-Dec-2008 so this has been in the works for a while
IF such an event occurs, I would want to know who will repair and have the parts before I buy. The Lionel Classics of the late 1980s MTH made were done at a time when you could call there and someone actually answered the phone.But times have changed.