…I just got an old Lionel steam engine refurbished - it’s one of the turbine models. I’m running it on FasTrack with O-36 curves. I’ve also got MTH crossing gates hooked into the accessary activator track. Unfortunately, the engine runs so well now that I can’t apply enough power to make the crossing gates go all the way down. [banghead] If I do, the engine goes off the curve. (Already done that 3 times!) I did get some advice from the local train shop (Otherwise know as The Train Shop -http://www.trainshoponline.com/ ) on how to wire into the 20V line off of my KW, but I’m concerned because he told me that if the loco’s stopped on the activator portion, I could fry my transformer. So I purchased some O-48 curves and will utilize those as I expand my layout.
Your crossing gates should be powered from a source different from your throttle. The KW has all kinds of fixed voltages on it, and 20 volts is probably too much. Find an apropriate one and use it. You are in no danger of frying your transformer, the danger is in frying the crossing gate.
Where do these places find their help?
HI DJ
what is the part number of your crossing gates [?]
Do you know if they can be run from fix power [?]
tom
Tom, I’m not familiar with the KW but I would suggest powering the gates off an accessory tap on the transformer, usually 14 to 16 volts will operate most accessories. Generally I feed the power to the accessory and make the “U”, i.e. ground with an insulated rail, or use an IR device.
I’ve also a 2020 turbine that I upgraded with TMCC, eventhough it doesn’t have magnitraction or traction tires it’s a strong puller just due to its weight.
DJ,
KOOL-DJ here. What you want is to wire your track to either A & U for 6 to 18 volts, or A & C for 0 to 14 volts.
If you’re using A & U, then run your crossing gate wire back to Post C for 6 volts or D for 20 volts fixed.
If you’re using posts A & C, then use Post U for 6 volts fixed and Post D for 14 volts fixed.
The latter of these choices would be best. The engine shouldn’t require more than 0 to 14v, and the gate should behave well at 14v fixed.
Just to reitterate, one wire from the gate to the outside(insulated) rail of the insulated FasTrack rail piece, and one wire from the gate to Post D on your KW.
I hope this helps!
Jon [8D]
Alright, here’s whatsa I gotsa:
spankybird: it’s an MTH No. 262 Black Crossing Gate - I don’t have the part number but I can get that tonight.
On the back of the KW, it has this kind of layout:
U <–6V–> C <–14V–> D <–20V–> U
Currently, I’m not sure if I have this loop attached to either A or B - does it make a difference? I have two loops of track running independently of each other: one is wired to A and the other to B. Both return to U.
Kooljock1, I’m a bit confused on a couple of things you’re saying that are not necessarily related to my problem.
Originally posted by Kooljock1:
Are you saying that I could wire the track between A & C? (Keep in mind that I am transformer illiterate.)
If I may summarize, there are two ways to use this transformer, one with higher voltages, the other with lower.
High-voltage arrangement
U–common, wired to outside rails of both loops
A–6-20 volts, wired to center rail of one loop
B–6-20 volts, wired to center rail of other loop
C–6 volts, wired to one terminal of crossing gate if it will operate on 6 volts
D–20 volts, wired to one terminal of crossing gate if it will not operate on 6 volts and can stand 20 volts
Low-voltage arrangement
U–6 volts, wired to one terminal of crossing gate if it will operate on 6 volts
A–0-14 volts, wired to center rail of one loop
B–0-14 volts, wired to center rail of other loop
C–common, wired to outside rails of both loops
D–14 volts, wired to one terminal of crossing gate if it will not operate on 6 volts and can stand 14 volts
In both cases, the other terminal of the crossing gate is wired to the control rail.
HI all,
Bob - I have a KW and I don’t know how you can set it up for “Low Power” [?]
This is from Lionel’s manual
As stated above the ‘U’ is common and should be connected to the outside rails
The ‘A’ and ‘B’ is variable 6-20 volts (to run the trains)
The ‘U’ and ‘D’ is fixed at 20 volts
The ‘U’ and ‘C’ is fixed at 6 volts
The ‘C’ and ‘D’ is fixed at 14 volts
PLEASE NOTE: if you use the 14 volts (C to D) this is two hot sides and should not be used to anything that connects to the track.
tom
Tom, how you can set it up for “low voltage” (not “power”) is in the way I described.
I have the schematic before me. Substituting the C terminal for U as the common simply removes the fixed 6-volt winding from all the circuits, dropping the A and B voltages from 6-20 to 0-14 and dropping the D voltage from 20 to 14. The only amendment that I would make to my advice above is that, in neither the “low-voltage” nor “high-voltage” configuration, is the 6 volts between the C and U terminals protected by the circuit breaker.
Many Lionel transformers can be used in this way, since both ends of the fixed 6-volt (or thereabouts) winding are usually brought out to the terminals. There is nothing unsafe about it that I can see.
Thanks
tom
Okay, let me muddle the waters just a little bit.
I currently have a crossing gate on both loops - the inner loop gate works fine because the MTH engine I’m running seems to need more power. However, if I want to wire both gates separately, as Bob depicted, well, can it be done? In other words, wire both gates to either C or D in my current configuration.
Yes. Each gate can be wired to C or D, regardless of what you have done with the other gate. So both on one terminal, or one on each, whatever works best, or leave the inner gate connected to the track voltage.
HI DJ
I just wanted to warn you of a possible problem with wiring your gates.
Here are the post and voltages again
The ‘A’ and ‘B’ is variable 6-20 volts (to run the trains)
The ‘U’ and ‘D’ is fixed at 20 volts
The ‘U’ and ‘C’ is fixed at 6 volts
The ‘C’ and ‘D’ is fixed at 14 volts
Now if you use the C + D = 14 volts for power the gate and if you have the gate activated by the train (isolated rail) which has A + U = 6 to 20 volts and the gate has a COMMON Ground the when the gate is activated it will then see D + U = 20 volts.
tom
I believe that DJ is contemplating wiring one side of each gate to EITHER C or D, while using U as the common, connected to the outside rails. In that case, when a train is on the control section, the gate will see 6 volts if wired to C or 20 volts if wired to D, as I said above: “20 volts, wired to one terminal of crossing gate if it will not operate on 6 volts and can stand 20 volts”.
If DJ wants to continue to use U as the common, then he must choose between 6 and 20 (from terminals C and D, respectively) for the accessory voltage or find another expedient, such as a separate transformer or a dropping resistor in series with the gate. If he is willing to run both trains on 0-14 volts, he can use C as the common and choose between 6 and 14 volts (from terminals U and D, respectively) for the crossing gate. This is all in the chart I posted above.
I gave some advice on selecting a dropping resistor in this recent topic: http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=25324&REPLY_ID=247838#247838
I always used the insulated rail sections to activate and a small brick to get the 11 volts. That way, I had sufficent voltage to make them operate and not too much to burn them out.
Good Bob,
Look like we agree, I just didn’t want DJ to run the trains at 0-20 volts with U being common and try to run the Gates at 14 volts.
tom
I just run a seperate small transformer, that way I can use the min. voltage needed to operate the acc. Keeps bulbs lasting longer and the acc. run much cooler, no overheating the coils or the light bulbs. The inner throttle levers of a ZW are a good source for powering accesories, consider upgrading to a ZW transformer. Cheers Mike
If DJ can’t use any of the KW wiring options (not that we know that yet), I think a resistor would be a lot cheaper than a ZW. Are you still there, DJ?
Exactly. Currently the two loops run from A/B to U, so I will test connecting the gates to C, then, if that doesn’t provide enough power, to D.
Yup, I’m still here. I only access the internet from work, as I don’t have a web connection at home. Given how crazy this week has been, I probably won’t get a chance to experiment with this until Sunday.
One more suggestion: If the gate doesn’t work on C, try connecting it to the track voltage (A or B) for the other loop (without a train on that other loop), just so that you can adjust the voltage experimentally to see what voltage it does operate at. That may give you a feel for whether the 20 volts of terminal D is too much over its normal operating voltage.
By the way, do you have any operating instructions for these gates that might indicate what voltage they are intended for? If not that, do you know the model number? Someone here may be able to tell us more about them.