Intermodal Trains: a few questions

Trains Magazine General Discussion
21

Brian,

This is only one way to accomplish the move…if you work at it, you can come up with a couple more ways, depending on whether it is CTC, ABS, or dark territory…how far ahead can each train move, what limits do they have, stuff like that.

Time consuming to say the least.

I have done a simple saw by quite a few times, as our tracks were built and designed way back in the 20s and 30s, and with the longer trains we now run, there is no choice…but these are planned moves and we work in dark territory under RTC, so we really have no limits on our movement.

Dispatchers hate the unexpected saw by, screws up the entire sub time wise.

22

No the one that got away was the 350 car empty coal hopper train they ran out of Kenova,WVa about 13 years ago.I just missed that one,but I got stuck behind it all night while the crew put hoppers in about every siding to Williamson,WVa [:(]

Boy did the “yardmonster” that had that train put together get his but chewed [soapbox] .

23

Great explanation, Ed. Could you venture a guess as to how much time those examples would take to complete? It took me about 10 minutes and I didn’t have to pump up the air.

24

[quote user=“greyhounds”]

Well, there’s not anything inherintly “bad” about long trains. Niether is there anything inherintly “good” about short trains. And, why run two short trains when you can get the job done with one long train?

And that’s the important thing, “getting the job done”. In the past long trains of general freight tended to fall down on the job. They were difficult to operate and they provided terrible service. With this amazing train the BNSF was able to reduce the operating difficulties. The articulated cars and distributed power reduced the slack and braking problems. The now largely double track Transcon reduced, if not eliminated, the siding length problem.

In other markets, and in other times, long trains provided unreliable service. Freight cars spent a lot of time sitting in yards so they could be aggregated into those long trains. If they missed a connection there was a long wait until the next long train. Service was unreliable with long trains of general freight.

BNSF just doesn’t have that problem on the LA-Chicago container route. Those ships disgourge thousands of containers. Aggregating the boxes into a long t

25

Time sensitivity is still an issue for intermodal, and running such absurdly long trains will only add to the time penalties. Don’t forget, all those containers disgourged from those ships have to be marshalled first and sorted, then and only then are they loaded onto the well cars. And on the operating side of things, such long trains can only cause havoc to the other trains using the Transcon, including those time sensitive UPS trains. I wonder how UPS feels about this spector of long double stacks potentially clogging up their priority trains? Are there enough passing opportunities built into the Transcon to allow an Eastbound UPS to glide past a long eastbound double stack without losing speed? -FM

[(-D][(-D][(-D]…want to try to rethink this? Unless a short ride in a bomber chassis is somehow equated to marshalling…

26

Not to pick on FM, but I have always found the contention that ship-generated intermodal was time sensitive very dubious. UPS-generated intermodal on the other hand, there is no question that it is time sensitive.

Once you view the time it takes to get that countainer in to the port in China, loaded on the ship with all of the rest of the containers, the ship to cross the vast waters of the pacific, to wait for a berth in LA, be unload, and then placed on a train, the thought of saving a day or two by making the rail run time sensitive is akin to ordering a diet soft drink when you are eating a super-sized value meal at McDonnalds with a side of chicken nuggets.

Gabe

27

Gabe - I have clients in the high value chemicals business. They are always importing and exporting various finished materials using ISO tank containers across the Pacific. The

28

So 24 hours matter, when it takes over three weeks to ship? I don’t doubt you, but it just seems counter-intuitive?

Gabe

29

For the industries living (and dying) by the “just-in-time” method of inventory management, it certainly does…

30

Only regular through freights are a daily manifest freight each way and bare table moves…

Still used as an escape route for screw-ups between Amarillo & Belen and during congestion. Still is faster than the Belen CutOff (If somebody will pay for the extra fuel &/or HP, properly run, it is not as brutal as legend has made it out to be)…crew availability is now a big issue.

31

Well if they are willing to wait three weeks on a container ship to get to the USA across the pacific and then get all sweaty and lathered over 24 lost hours… something is seriously bent wrong in the minds of the industry.

I loved the McDonalds analogy to the diet soft drink someone posted. Outstanding. I dont eat McFatty. I prefer to story buy and cook my meals at home (Or at least microwave them LOL)

32

So, just one of his customers generates about $700,000 per hour in revenue. 24 hours = $1.6 million. Yes - it matters.

dd

33

I guess what I do not understand is that the customer operates on a zero-based inventory?

Once again, I am sure you are right, and am not arguing with you. I am just having trouble with the concept.

Gabe

34

With scheduling that tight, what happens when something breaks down during the ocean voyage, or the train trip? Is there a great big fan involved for something to hit?[:O]

35

Yes the Fan is the customer.

If they dont get that widget the USA sits idle or find the widgets elsewhere.

Those who “lost” the widgets for whatever reason are the ones that get splattered. If the captian of the ship sank it, the shipping company gets splattered along with the brokers who arranged and promised delivery.

Which is why I feel it’s easier to have the widgets made right here at home, gotta find a way to put all of those new immigrants to work in someplace other than farm fields.

36

One of the most famous exports from Japan is the “Toyota Production System” also known as “Lean Manufacturing.” The goal of this system is Zero Inventory. Now back to my client’s customer - that 2,000 gallon ISO chemical represents about $6 million in inventory. No way is that customer going to have 2 or 3 extras ISOs in line for processing. BTW my client’s average trans-Pacific transit time is less than 10 days. Ships move at different speeds. He pays for fast ships.

dd

37

No slow boat for this one then. The money is there to pay for fast ships.

I was thinking about those 20 dollar toasters that arrive to the walmart slightly abused and banged up from thier trip.

38

All intermodal has a vested interest in time sensitivity, some (UPS parcels) more than others (Walmart widgets). If BNSF wants to maximize the efficiency of moving Wallyworld&

39

Gabe,

From the moment the container seal is snapped in place to the moment the container is opened at the WalMart distribution center, a “clock” starts and the container is tracked.

The time it takes to load onto the ship, the ocean transit time, the time required to unload and drop on a boogie truck or straight to the railcar is a known, anticipated part of the shipping time.

You don’t have to “marshal” the containers…they are already sorted, stacked and inventoried in the ship, already assigned a train, down to the car they go in.

Container shipping and operations are the most efficient type of railroading, in that every single movement of the box is already planned, and its movement is refined down to within a few minutes.

The shipping lines who own and operate the ship can tell you where in the ship the container is, how much the container weights, when it will hit the railcar, down to the expected departure time of the train, from the moment the door closes on the box at its point of origin.

The lift operators have a computer generated “map” of the containers; they can drop one on average in 30 seconds or less from the ships hold to platform, truck or railcar it will travel on.

The shipping lines pay a stiff penalty if they delay these things even to a time frame as small as 30 minutes.

The stevedore company in charge of unloading them also works on a clock, and pays if they miss the trains scheduled departure time…zero tolerance there for the most part.

Both BNSF and UP have mobile repair crews that can swap out wheels, replace brake shoes, do pretty much anything to the railcars, while the other cars in the same train are being loaded.

The shipping lines have it down to the point they can tell you how much money they allocate in fuel cost to each container, depending on where it is picked up and delivered to and how much it weights, and the total transit time for that one box from any giv

40

I would have several really beefy company officials hand me paperwork and order me to catch the Maresk or whatever ship at the Port pronto. No lunch, no breaks no nothing. Just get down to the ship right away.

Sometimes that port is 250 ground miles to the south in Norfolk or Portsmouth.

As long as they grab the box with the crane and gets it onto the ship, Ive done my job.

We also relied on the shipyard to really quickly change out the load and grab another box. I think one yard in Chester PA was absolutely elite in thier work. It would take less than 40 minutes to drop a box, dump the chassis, grab another, get it inspected and have a new box put on and back on the interstate. For me, Chester was the very best.

It was a bit of trust to sit in the yellow box while a big crane roared towards your chassis with a swaying box that weights a great deal and slams it down just so.

Not like some shipping lines in Baltimore where the inspectors would leave 70 trucks idling while they took thier 1 hour lunch with another 100 due by dinner time.

Railyards inland were even more demanding, only they knew exactly where everything was and will be within the hour. It was up to the driver (Me) to be in the right place at the right time with the right trailer or box.

Grabbing number 1501414 when you should be getting 1504141 will get you royally chewed out.