I was at a hobby shop monday evening. A customer talking to an employee mentioned how there used to be so many more train shows. I didn’t say anything, but it must be ebay thats making the biggest hit. I went to a train show last year with not much money but had the itch to buy “something”. I went home with two bulkhead flatcars for not too much money. This added to my small number of “scale” cars I have. Next weekend is a show at Century College. I don’t have much money to blow, but I bet I will buy “something”.
You may be correct. In the antique business we discovered that ebay proved there were many more widgets in existance than we thought. That brought the pricing down quite a bit on many formally hard-to-find items.
Instead of searching for months and only covering a small area or a few shows, you can now search the world instantly and save searches so if a particular item comes up for sale you will know about it.
I totally think ebay is changing the hobby. From my experience ebay has had some strange effects on the market. I follow Ives as well as Lionel from 1936-48. The prices for ives are low, amazingly so. Im only 25 but ive been actively collecting since i was 13. I recall reading in CTT ads that Ives 1125 steamers were selling for 500-700 or more depending on condition. Now you can buy one for 125-300 in nice shape on ebay. The prices for prewar and postwar Lionel have also dropped dramatically excepting of course examples rating Exc. to LN. People simply arn’t willing to pay a dealers inflated price anymore. Its even hard for me to pay 250 for an operator grade 2332 at my local train shop when i know i could get one on ebay for 175. Another rant… What is with people bidding up beat up stuff on the bay? You’ll see a 726 marked “for restore” and it will bring 175 with a bent cab roof, and missing 100 worth of parts, but a complete vg example will bring 150-175? Are people generally just that dumb. The days of making money easily on used trains without parting them are over.
I bet one reason that prices have come down via ebay is it is “easier” to find that item. I have one 8158 DM&IR GP9 I got brand new as a gift. Eventually I want to have 2 or 3 of them. In a month I can see at least 3 or more listed and often I see ones coming out of collections and were not used at all. Typical selling price around $80.00. Back in the 90s they were worth a bit more.
In Southeast PA, I think we have more trains shows now than ever…about 25 per year within a 2-hour drive of my house… and most of these are BIG. In the “old days” there were far more “collectors” of vintage items (not just trains). One nice trend in the past few years is the number and quality of big modular layouts at the large shows. This has done a lot to keep attendance high. Joe
As noted earlier, eBay has made items once thought hard to come by commonplace and much more affordable. I like to pick up and inspect a piece before buying it as much as anyone. But eBay gives me the opportunity to look at several of the same type item in mere seconds. and often for a lot less, even after shipping, than a train show vendor would sell for.
I like train shows for the junk boxes under the tables, or the back issue magazines for a buck. Train shows work for me in that I can find the cheap stuff that would cost more in shipping than the item costs if I were to buy it on eBay. I use both resources to my advantage.
This “older” guy does not get the opportunity to get to too many shows so E-Bay has become the ‘train show’ for me. The variety is certainly there but, as mentioned before, you can’t touch the item and you must consider the shipping cost.
Train shows do give you the chance to “look under the table” and to negotiate the prices. These are certainly features that E-Bay is not able to provide.
[2c] I don’t think that E-Bay will ever replace train shows but it does provide a valuable service and an insight to prices and trends before going to the shows.
Not sure that train shows are fewer due to Ebay, but I have noticed that I buy less these days at train shows. We only have one a year and the O scale are fewer and mostly N&HO. One reason I don’t buy as much is that between Ebay and the adds in the magazines, we are more educated in the going prices of items. I won’t pay $650 for the K-Line Lackawanna ABA set at a train show when I see adds from Trainworld, or others for $450, and I know of one source I can get it for under $350…but the folks at the show still have the $650 price tag on it. Perhaps these guys are trying to make the big bucks off the folks who don’t know any better and come in with children wanting this and that.
As to outrageous prices being paid, as the old saying goes “You just can’t fix Dumb”. One on line auction from a establishment that has a retail store as well is a good example. I have seen sets for auction go for better than $50.00 over the retail price that, had the bidders just clicked on the site’s retail section, they would see the price and bid accordingly. The Owners of the auction have even had signs at the top of the auction page advising folks to do that.
“What we have here, is a failure to communicate!”
Dennis
I, too, doubt eBay is the sole cause. For a long time, there were simply too many train shows, several per month in some locales, and the buying strength, even in those heady days, coould not continue to support the market. Too many folks were carrying around the same trains for the same outrageous prices for too long.
eBay certainly has reduced the NEED for shows, and, as others have noted, eBay has made it possible for folks like me who don’t live around show venues to gain access to lots of trains. It has also leveled the market by spreading the goods out over a broader area: geography no longer limits where one can find “deposits” of trains.
But eBay isn’t the only or even the primary reason for the reduction in the number of shows. Even had eBay never developed, the number would have come down.
That is still happening. I’m going to a semi-annual train show this weekend, and can practically gaurantee what I’m going to see as I walk down each isle. The same mediocre stuff as the past 5 shows with the same high prices.
In my far past, I would attend and take a table in most local train shows in CT and southern NY. A place to put up a few items to sell, talk to fellow collectors, a Sunday out, etc. Then the States and/or Towns deceided that Sales Tax should be collected. That would cause it to be including in each State Income tax, (file tax in 3 States?) and a taking out of a “Sales Tax Permit”. THIS FOR A HOBBY!!! THIS IS NOT FUN!!!
That was the end of my going to independent Shows. I never miss TCA York, where 14,000 TCA members attend, and they have a “deal” with Pennsylvania. (a Dealer collects tax, a Hobbyist doesn’t). I also attend NE-TCA shows that has a Massachusetts exemption for 3 meets a year. (member hobby show/meeting)
I would much rather goto a show. But there aren’t that many in my area. plus I work 21 turn, so i’m rarely off when there is one. I usualy have to take a V day for the ones I really want to go to.
I don’t know that eBay can ever completely replace shows, especially in the parts of the country where shows are common. Maybe it’s hurt traveling shows like The American Great Train Show. I know eBay has been great for people who live in areas that don’t have a lot of shows, especially in the south and west.
In St. Louis there are about three shows a year that have enough to make me willing to go out of my way to attend. To me, eBay can’t compare to wandering around huge conference rooms with row after row of tables full of trains and treasures under the tables. But those only happen three times a year, and I can’t think of a year that I’ve actually been able to hit all three.
When there’s something specific that I want, I can usually go on eBay and find it. Even if it’s something unusual, if I’m willing to watch for it for a couple of weeks it’ll probably turn up.
If I want something now, eBay’s the way to go for me. If I want a bargain, especially on a bag of parts or something else project-related, you’ll never beat a train show.
Ebay is nice. But I like to get my hands on a item and look it all over so I like shows better. I have gotten some deals off of ebay but I limit on a price I spend on there so if i do get burned it’s not a 3rd degree burn.
If it weren’t for ebay I wouldn’t be able to enjoy this hobby as much as I do now. I’ve never heard of a train show or a swap meet within 100 miles of my home plus the only hobby store that sells train stuff is closed when I get off work. So for me , ebay is the only way to go.
hello, ebay is just so much easier. But you guys have to understand, if you are buying an item such as a 726 berk, you are already 20 bucks in the hole because of shipping…and you don’t get to see if the engine runs, smokes, whistles. Ebay is a risk. Yeah they have good prices, train shows are getting less here and ebay is just so stressful winning the bids and waiting. you have to be young and confident and have lots of money to win items on ebay. Timing is everything when it comes to ebay. thanks.
Train shows - No. Train shops - perhaps.
I don’t use ebay to shop, but I do use it as a reference.
Not sure if it has hurt the train shows as much as it has the shops but I think we can thank the shipping services for a possible reverse as if you check out the shipping cost now days a lot of times it getting as much if not more than some of the trains your buying. now not very good train sets but I bought a set with a 1062 engine with slope back tender a flat and gondola and caboose for $20.00 and the shipoping was $25.00 so now we are looking at $45.00 for the set . now i look at it know I could probally done better at a show. but here I’m getting ready to sell a lot as don’t have room and no real shows (probally couldn’t get off anyway) near by and hobby shop closest I believe is about 65 miles away in ashville , N.C. but not sure how good it is. So in my case I try to charge as little as posible to buyer for shipping so I can get a fair price. I even offer refund on over charges of shipping.
E-bay helps you find a hard to get item. The problem with train show selling is too much product competing for the sale. I can have real deals on the table and they barely get a nod. so the real problem as I see it, many are giving up selling at shows because sales are down not because of E there’s just to much for sale and only so much$$$ per person.
I hope that train shows replace ‘ebay’ because you can not tell if something works, has cracks in it or is broken, also the seller usually shows the good side of any item. Sometimes sellers on ‘ebay’ don’t know what scale train items they are selling. This has happened to me with a caboose, was listed as H.O. and was really O gauge or 027 size. Had a good experiance with ebay also, bought a Williams SD-45 diesel in Pennsy colors and runs great for only $65.00 about six years ago.
Also had a slightly bad experiance with ChooChoo Auctions, I bought a Williams SD-45 diesel that I needed to glue the window back into and was missing a handrail from the front of the engine, this was not mentioned in any way when posted for sale on ChooChoo Auctions. Have bought previously from ChooChoo Auctions with no problems, so it is a 50/50 chance you will get something good or bad.
Also with internet buying you must pay for shipping!!!
I love to go to train shows because I find more intersting stuff there, meet people and I can test the item before I put out the cash!! Also another reason for traveling to another city, for you married guys the wife loves to travel-remember that!
Lee F.