Ok stopped in to the club the other day to pick up something for a friend and walked in on an well lets just say another “heated discussion” between tow of the more senior members of the club arguing over what the big thing in front of the train that makes all the noise and pulls all the cars is supposed to be called.
When they saw me walk in they both turned to me and asked me to settle the dispute. Not because I am so well informed or anything like that , but rather because I am the knucklehead that made eye contact with the both of them. I just shrugged my shoulders and said “the front” got called a wise you know what and they went back to their “discussion”
The entire structure, between pulling faces of the couplers and from flange bottom to the highest point of the top profile, is a locomotive.
Strictly speaking, the cylinders, rods, drivers, valve gear, reverse mechanism and the frame that holds them together constitute an, “Engine.” Articulateds have two of them (except for those articulateds with gear or shaft drive from a single engine.)
For diesels, again strictly speaking, the, “Engine,” is the prime mover, the thing that burns all that diesel fuel.
Catenary and third rail locomotives are frequently referred to as, “Motors,” even though the motor is only the unit (single or multiple) that converts electricity to rotary motion.
Common, non-technological speach has confused the part with the whole. Machinery designers are aware of the difference.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with steam locomotives that have motors driving their engines)
Well, as one knucklehead (technically speaking, I’m actually a Canucklehead) to another, I use them interchangeably. However, if the big thing on the front is an Allegheny (or any other articulated), that first “6” is technically an “engine” itself, as is the second “6”. Therefore, you could call it either a locomotive or an engine-engine. (I’d put a grinning idiot smiley here, but Safari seems to disallow such frivolities). Wayne
But for operational rather than engineering purposes, operating rules typically define “engine” as “A unit propelled by any form of energy, or a combination of such units operated from a single control point, and used in train or yard service.” That’s from a 1959 Santa Fe book of rules, and if you go back to the 1927 Santa Fe book you find “ENGINE – A locomotive propelled by any form of energy and used in train or yard service.*” The asterisk referred to a note that “*Where the term ‘Engine’ appears in these rules it applies to either ‘Engine’ or ‘Motor Car.’” So a locomotive can be an engine, but so can a motor car.
“Locomotive” is typically not defined in operating rules, even where used in a definiton as above.
To some its a locomotives,to others its a engine,to some shopmen its a “motor” while two or more becomes a locomotive consist.
Modelers have a tenancy to worry over proper terms…Not so with real railroaders…We simply called as we would and some names can’t be repeated on a family forum…
Steam locomotives have a steam engine moving them.
Diesel locomotives have a diesel engine moving them…but via an electric traction motor or more.
I grew up the son of a man who called steam locomotives “steam engines”, except that a Steam Donkey is also a steam engine. So is the type of propulsion system in steam ships of old.
I read somewhere a few months back that it is generally not considered correct to call a diesel locomotive an ‘engine’; that is reserved for steamers…or was during their heyday and for some years later. Yet, every diesel is very much an engine, and not a motor. Why we ever got around, in some circles, to calling the latter motor cars is beyond me. Anyone remember Jimmy Stewart? “It’s a grrrrate dah forrr moootorrr cahr rrracing!!”[:D]
Actually, I think the term is “locomotive engine”.
An engine can do all sorts of things like throw rocks, pump water, hoist loads, drive piles, etc., but a locomotive engine is an engine which moves things.
Also note the word “locomotive” is adjectival in form. In the context of railroading, the adjective became the noun, because “steam locomotive engine”, or “electric locomotive engine”, or “diesel-electric locomotive engine” is a bit much to say in conversation, no matter how impressive the phrase may look on paper.
I think it can depend on the railroad too. The Burlington called their’s motors, of course they called that thing on the back of a train a waycar and not the more commonly used term.
Andy actually had the correct answer. Officially, the thing that propels the train is an engine. Sez so in every rule book in N America, from the 1800’s to today.
Any thing after that is purely local custom, nickname or slang and varies from region to region from railroad to railroad from era to era…
While some folks get a kick out of being perverse about it, I don’t see an issue since either way we know what we’re talking about. I usually call the steam ones, steam engines and the diesel ones, diesel locomotives. But that’s only because that’s how I heard them used many years ago
Well “loco” comes from Greek for a place (as in “location”), and “motio” for movement (or “motion”)…so locomotive means basically “moves from place to place”. The dictionary says a locomotion is “a self-propelling electric, diesel or steam engine on wheels, esp. one for use on a railway”.
BTW railroads in the thirties often called their new diesels “motors” to separate them from steam engines on the roster. Many referred to their earlier doodlebugs (or electrics if they had them) as motors too, and some used “M” in the number of the diesel: “M-10000”. This was more an in-house thing, it didn’t really affect what people in the real world called the diesels…kinda like how the DMIR classified their first SD-9s as “RS-1” type engines, because they designated them as Road Switchers and they were the first ones they had. (You can see that on the small lettering on the cab.) Except for some official paperwork, most folks I’m sure called them SD-9s or “them new diesel thingees”.
All I know is way back in diesel school if you called the engine a motor the teacher would lecture you after he smacked you in the side of the head with that dust filled chalk board eraser. He always said motors run on electricity, Engines run on fuel. The assemblage of parts usually at the front of the train is a locomotive. The locomotive has an engine or two or more. A boat and ship has an engine room that contains an engine or two or more.
Well…this expired equine is unrecognizable from the beating its taken.
Andy is correct. Slang and such are fun but aren’t worth the argument. Arguing about that is like arguing about what road had the best paint scheme…uh oh, let’s not start that again.
As was touched upon earlier, it’s interesting too how railfan jargon can be very different from a working railroader’s. Someone - maybe Jim Boyd?? - wrote something once about visiting the LS&I in Upper Michigan and getting to talk to the crew of one of the road’s ex-ATSF low nose Alco RSD’s. When the author called them “Alligators” the crew didn’t know what he was talking about at first. They had their own nickname for them which I can’t recall right now, but was something like “luggers” or something like that relating to their pulling power.
Similarly in steam days, working railroaders rarely used terms like Mikado or Pacific, they generally used their railroad’s number scheme…i.e. USRA Heavy Mountains might be “fifty five hundreds” to them, because their railroad numbered them from 5500 to 5519.
To carry this a step or three farther…2 or more locomotives its a locomotive consist never a lashup.A track switch is exactly that a switch-turn out to the engineering department…Its a GP40-2 never a GP40-2 phase 1 to the Railroad and EMD…
Forget that colorful slang the earlier railroaders use…It disappeared in the '20’s…We did speak our own lingo.
Example: We will meet the Springfield man at Carter Ave,then we will leave the first 12 on the connector and pick 'em up on our return…We don’t have any work above Ohio Stove so we’ll make our turn there.On picking up the 12 switch out the 3 C&Os and we will leave 'em on the C&O on our home trip.