After watching many, many YouTube video’s of steam locos with sound, it appears that nobody can touch Tsunami’s TSU-1000. Pricey… yes, but wow. What do you guys think? Also, could I get some pros and cons on Shinohara HO for an On30 layout?
Thanx guys
Steve
Respectfully, listening to YouTube videos of steam locos is not exactly like being there unless you are watching them through a killer home theater system.
So listening to an onboard sound system in HO may well be pretty similar to listening to YouTube vids on your computer - neather qualifies as Hi Fidelity or sounds anything like a steam locomotive.
If I were interested in On30, I would use Peco On30 track:
http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3309,3316&CAT_ID=3320&P_ID=17220
Sheldon
Sound quality is only one part of a decoder, and I am not sure what you hear through your computer speakers can be considered ‘HD Quality’ sound. You might want to go out to Soundtraxx or ESU’s web site and ‘listen’ to the actual sound clip files. At least they will not have the background noise in them and you can try out various files for different steam engines.
The other important factor is ‘motor function’ and how good the actual control of the locomotive is. I have see/heard both Tsunami and ESU Lok Sound decoders - Both are pricey, but the ESU units do have much better speed control from my experience. They also are capable of have different sound downloaded into them with the Loksound programmer.
As far as Shinohara track - It is basically good track and should perform well for you. I would not use anything less than a #6 turnout though(due to the long rigid wheelbase of some of those On30 engines on HO track).
Jim
I totally agree with Jim. For me - Loksound decoders are on par with Tsunamis but have much better motor control. I’ve also heard good things about the TCS WOWSound decoders (steam-only at the moment) and they also have excellent speed control.
And, while I do enjoy sound in moderation, given a choice between sound and motor control? Motor control wins hands-down. To me there is nothing admirable about a locomotive with sound but it’s start speed is 5-10 sMPH - even after tweaking. With the Loksound and TCS decoders, I’ve had to do little or no tweaking at all to get them 1 sMPH or less.
Tom
Can’t delete post.
I have older QSIs, upgraded chip QSIs’, Revolutions, Titans, Tsunami Medium and Heavy Steam, ESULokSounds (down to only one from four), and several BLI proprietary Paragon decoders. Aside from the longer familiarity with the oldest, the original non-BEMF QSI’s, they really don’t sound all that good compared to the others, and the upgraded chips from 2006 were as good as anything I have today. Mind you, I have tankers’ ears.
The three ‘modern’ ones I have, Tsunami, QSI Rev and Titan, and the Paragons, are all about the same quality and drive characteristics to my ears and eyes. With the right tweaking, a Tsunami decoder can move a sticky drive smoothly from a dead stop to a designated speed, even though it is now a dated decoder. LokSounds are peerless in motor control…or were. Now I find the QSI’s and Paragons have caught up.
My go-to replacements lately have been Titans.
Steve,
The Tsunami has been industry standard for a long time. Probably too long now that the TCS WOW is hitting the market. Have some acquantainces who were beta testers on the WOW and it is the new standard. Speculation is that Soundtraxx will soon have its next generation Tsunami-replacement on the market. There’s the possibility that the upcoming Blackstone K-28 and K-36 might serve to introduce it, but nothing but rumor amongst the well-informed for now.
The main con with using Shinohara or any other HO track for On30 is the silly tight tie spacing that results. Looks nothing like most narrowgauge, but if you bury it in the ballast and mud it does work for some people.
Gentlemen, very very usefull information! I do have a very nice sound system here, as I fly Microsofts FSX flight simulator and invested pretty much in sound. I have gone to sites and listened to their clips. Seemed I always noted a tinge of tininess, but that could be just me and my ears (Iwas a sonarman in submarines). I like your information on motor control, and yes, I think I will make that my priority.
Thanks for the track info. I’ll go back and look at the Micro Engineering stuff, Not sure if I am a stickler on tie spacing or not, as I am just getting started on my first medium layout, which is why I am vacillating between HOn3 and On3. Still in the process of learning, which you guys are helping me with. Whichever I decide, I will probably only be running Shay’s and Climax’s.
Thanks
Steve
I have to say that the SurroundTraxx system of external speakers, but triggered by transponders built into Digitrax decoders, seems to offer the best option for really great sound on a layout, since the sound can “move” with the train. There is a good article about it in the March 2014 issue of MR.
I do not know how advanced this sound zone system really is or will soon get, but the theories for how stereo sound works could mean that eventually the sound would move seamlessly as the train moves, without suddenly jumping to the next zone. And since deep bass sound is very non directional (which is why you can place a subwoofer almost anywhere in a room that has a stereo sound system and still “think” the bass notes are coming out of the regular speakers with the rest of the music) again to my way of thinking this offers the possibility of really impressive sound – more so than the relatively puny onboard systems.
Dave Nelson
Hmmm. Interesting comments. I have installed 2 Tsunami 1000 series steam decoders and one TSU 750 and never touched the speed functions and all the engines can crawl so slow that many seeing them can’t believe what they are looking at.
Certainly, the 12 Blackstone C-19 and K-27’s that I now own are flawless out of the package, starting speed-wise, and they use the 750 and 1000 Tsunamis, I’m sure.
I have mentioned this before and will say it again. All Blackstone’s C-19s and K-27s, as delivered, have a whistle that is the worst I have ever heard and you must change the whistle, unless you want to be a laughing stock. I found I changed the whistle instantly and liked to tweak the reverb, rod clank, chuff sound and volumes on most everything, but that is all easy to do once struggled through by the neophyte.
Agreed that listening to you-tube sounds for steam decoders is usually not even close to what you will hear in person, but hi def sound through a computer is often not representative of what you will hear from your tiny in-tender speaker in real life, either. I tend to use the super bass minature speaker offered by Tsunami and get good results in the steamers I have converted and to which I have added the 1000’s and the 750 sound decoders.
I too await the Blackstone’s fabled release of the K-28 and K-36. They need to kill that whistle default…sounds like a peanut vendor’s whistle with the flu. How that even got in the mix remains a mystery to me. Any of the other whistle selections are better!
Have you listened to some good recordings of the TCS WOW Sound decoders? They blow Tsunamis away with the clear chuffs that vary based on load on the loco (controlled via BEMF). If you must go diesel, well, I think Tsunamis were long bypassed, they still have week horn sounds among other things. Loksound has probably the best prime movers and horns these days. And the motor control is better.
–Randy
Thanks for the info guys, and I realize that listening to DCC steam locos on YouTube is not the ideal way to judge the merits of the different manufacturers, but I used the relative differences I heard and looked up the sites that had clips. I heard some horrendous whistles, and some really tinney sounding ones relative to the others. The response here has been very helpful.
Steve
Oh, rrinker, strictly steam here, and I will go listen to the TTCS WOW, thanks a lot.
Steve