Do manufacturers not create 1800’s steam engines because there is no market for them, or
Do does the market not exisit because no one makes good steam engines.
My guess is that it is more expensive to make the smaller engines work well and therefore it is not as profitable. Why make less profit when you can make more profit easier?
I’d say there ought to be a market for a good 4-4-0 - there’s been enough film and TV appearences of the type to attract newbies and the ornate paint schemes could be a great way for a model company to show off their painting/printing skills. I’d buy one if there was a halfway decent model available - was considering one of the Bachmann examples though I hear they’re disappointing?
SpaceMouse, to answer your question. YES! Its a bit of both. They don’t make the old time stuff because there is not a big demand for it, and the demand is low because hobbyists don’t choose to model that era because there is little available. As far as manufacturers being able to make good reliable 1800s engines, if they can make n guage and z guage locos that work well, it would be no harder to make old time HO equipment work well. I think that there has not been the upgrading of the old locos like there has been in the diseasals and later steam because they perceive that the market is not there. The fact that locos are still produced with the engine in the tender is a clue to this ( that’s the way they were made 50 years ago before n guage stuff because there weren’t the little motors available to do the job). The motor after all is the heavy part and means the drive wheels will pull that many fewer cars. etc. etc. etc.
Might it have anything to do with more, smaller roads leading to too much uncertainty as to which would sell enough to be economical to make? I can see this as a more recent development, with the tendancy to push more-detailed and more-prototypical offerings.
While it’s been frequently commented (sometimes quite vocally) here that “what does the world need another XXXXX model in HO” (or N or O or whatever…), to some extent the reason another one is offered is because the company is reasonably confident that the market isn’t saturated with that particular loco/road combination.
Brian Pickering
I think it’s a little of both. Looking at steam models in general, the common wisdom used to be, “People mostly model what they saw as a kid, and new modelers grew up with diesels. The market for steam models is shrinking and will eventually disappear”.
Bull poo. Bachmann took a risk and introduced their line of Spectrum HO engines. At the time, I was a real oddball; a 25 year old modeler so hooked on steam that I was buying clunker Mantua engines just for the drive train components, and superdetailing them to prototype standards. I bought my first Spectrum 2-8-0 as soon as my LHS had one in stock, and wished that manufacturers would hurry up and jump on the bandwagon. By 2001 and the introduction of BLI, my wish was granted, and I have since sold off all my Mantua “things” and replaced virtually my entire fleet of metal steam and plastic diesels with modern plastic steam models (I have kept a few brass locos, but only if I really “need” them, and if I can’t get them in plastic).
Steam is still a niche, but I actually think that there are more modelers out there who own a steamer than a post-1990 diesel. More people are modelling the steam-era, and more modellers are backdating to take advantage of the great engines we now have. And I’ve found that I’m not alone in being relatively young and modelling with an all-steam roster. Frankly, it seems these days that the only people who seriously model the modern era are old people. (I know that’s not true, but I know a LOT more post-50 modern modelers than I know pre-35 modern modelers)
I’m sure that if some company took the plunge and started making 1890-1910 engines, they’d sell out fast. Bachmann proved THAT when they introduced their On30 line, which is good for the 1900-1930 period. They sell out as soon as the containers are opened! The rumor mill over on the Bachmann forum is that they’re looking into a brand new 4-4-0; I suspect we’ll see one by the end of 2006.
Steam has a romance that knows no era: no North American three-year-old living today has EVER seen a steam engine working in revenue service (other than maybe at a museum) but every one of those three-year-olds knows that the sound a train makes is CHOO-CHOO!
Bachmann’s experiment with On30 may have cracked open a heretofore unexpected amount of support for early steam–the market will, eventually, follow. One hopes, anyhow!
There is a market for steam from the 1800s, even locos like the John Bull and DeWitt Clinton. Working in a train store, I have had plenty of people ask me about models from that era. There is most certainly a market for them. But, size does alter the price, with smaller being more expensive. Now, whether or not it would be unprofitable or not, I don’t know.
~[8]~ TrainFreak409 ~[8]~
They can be. Mine is over 30 years old. It still runs but it has slowed down a bit lately. It is pretty strong though.
MR readers’ surveys over many years always have indicated that interest in pre-1900 railroading is minimal among hobbyists. Back in the 1960’s and 70’s quite a number of engines fitting the general era in question were available as relatively inexpensive, detail-it-yourself, brass kits. Likewise, there have been more than a few more expensive Civil War to Golden Spike era brass locomotives offered over the years. But to my knowledge none of these products has ever sold well and most are rather hard to find today. So, I’d have to say it’s been a general lack of interest in the era, rather than a lack of available equipment, that has hindered this area of the hobby…at least in the past.
CNJ831
Chip is this what your after, or not old enough.
http://www.frateschi.com.br/produtos/tenwheeler_eng.php
Ken.
IT might be a tad too new, but it is worth a look. The USA dealer should not be too far away.
Ya know, I’ve thought about this question some and it seems to me that there are a few that are willing to step out on a limb. MDC in N scale is the most obvious one that comes to mind. For that matter, Athearn for picking up the ball and running with it when MDC was to far in the hole to dig out and got bought up. Atlas has also come out with the 2-6-0 Porter in N, and a shay, although they’ve come out with very little to support them in the way of rolling stock. I don’t model in other scales and so I will refrain from comment.
In other scales, as well as N, there have always been those cottage industries that cater to this nitch of the hobby by offering body’s to fit current mechanisms for the purpose of backdating.
And there’s always kitbashing and scratchbuilding! True, the only “manufacturers” that are involed in this area are not specifically addressing 19th century locomotives and rolling stock, but if you are so inclined to go this route…
And as to your other question,…according to Genesis it was the chicken. [:D]
I’m with Chip on this one as well. In the 2005 Walthers catalog the 4-4-0s look (to me) fairly garish in the paint schemes shown, but I understand that was the way it was done for some RRys. And most of those shown in the catalog have tender mounted engines with no room above the drivers for a decoder. So, what’s a modeler to do? Like others have said, skip up to 1905 or so and run YOUR railroad the way you want with the equipment you want ( larger steam always fascinated me…).
I’m not sure; I would love to do a late 1800’s railroad. I would do the line through Idaho, along the Snakeriver valley and into Oregon. I love cowboys and I love trains what a better time to get both. Scenery is much more important(less roads and much much smaller towns), it would be hard to model.
James[C):-)]
Just about every railroad’s paint scheme was garish up until the 1870s by modern standards–they LIKED really garish, obnoxious paint schemes, bunting, trim, ribbons, flags, antlers and whatever else they could stick on a locomotive. It wasn’t until the 1880s and Commodore Vanderbilt’s proclamations about how American railroads should look (stern, utilitarian, unfrivolous, and otherwise unremarkable) started getting attention that railroads started doing them in unadorned black.
But, of course, such color schemes don’t look too good in cheap plastic. A nicely-detailed brass 1870s loco is a treat for the eyes with the right garish Victorian paint job.
Back when NASA was planning the Mariner probe, they had to make a decision. They wanted to see what Mars looked like but there was a weight technology issue involving their video equipment. They could either do high resolution at a low frame/ second rate (slow shutter speed), or they could run low resolution and a high frame/second rate (high shutter speed).
Since they believed that there was no life on mars, they chose a the high resolution camera and used a computer to eliminate any anomalies from the image.
So what did they find? No life on Mars. However, using their camera set-up a dog could have walked in front of the camera and the computer would have eliminated the blur.
It was a self-fulfilling prophecy.
That Frateschi model is a beaut! Who imports it into the USA or Canada? With detail changes, it looks like it could fit into a layout from the 1890s (or earlier) right up to the 1950s.
Jim
if anyone from Bachmann is listening , i’d buy a spectrum 2-6-0 and 4-4-0 . might even pre-order them . especially if somebody announced a plug-and-play dcc sound decoder
I love the old time 1830s to 1900s steam engines. So far, Bachmann has been the only manufacturer to make more than 1 HO steam engine from that era, and there are only about 4 or 5 that they’ve made. I own all but one of their historical train sets (John Bull, DeWitt Clinton, Lafayette, don’t have the Prussia) and a 4-4-0, which runs horribly because the axles are too tight and I can’t free them up and it’s got a very weak pancake motor.
Yes, but the UP 8444 is back. I am certain it will see revenue service again when moving between excursions just like it used to. Please, please, please!