Is it wise to solder all the track joints.

On my layout, all my track is hand laid with code 70 and code 83 rail. I do not solder any rail joiners, I only use rail joiners for track alignment. Laying rails on curves is probably easier with hand laid rails than flex track so soldering is not an issue here. Every piece of track has a feeder to the main buss, I do not rely on rail joiners for electrical continuity, sooner or later they will fail due to corrosion or the simply get loose.

In 30 years or so, there has never been an expansion problem, I deliberately placed some small gaps in the rail her and there, some on purpose, some not so much.

The other Mel

Code 100 N/S track will only expand about 0.25" over 100’ of it with a rise in temperature of 30 deg F. Four small gaps across sliding/non-soldered joiners will handle changes in rail length for most instances, but only if the temp swings don’t exceed that 30 deg. If they do, say in a garage in Chicago, or maybe out where Chuck is in the desert, then you’d need a few more. However, if you don’t use metal framing, as Chuck has done, and have humidity changes in excess of 40%, chances are good your rails will buckle due to changes in the wood’s dimensions, especially if tracks are laid across the grain.

So far, only two of us out of 19 responents solder all rail joints without having problems.
That reinforces my opinion that most modellers put too little effort into making the space for their layout into a suitable and comfortable environment, both for the layout and for their own enjoyment.

Wayne

Hi Wayne.

I don’t disagree with you but I would keep in mind that some of us don’t have a lot of choice in regard to where the layout will be. Mine will be in an insulated garage. I will be able to add some heat through the use of portable heaters but humidity control will be difficult. I could seal the garage doors closed but I can’t afford the loss of access to the storage space in the rest of the garage. I could also use a humidifier in the winter to reduce the dryness, but there will still be significant swings in temperature and humidity because I don’t intend to leave the heaters running 24/7.

As for my own comfort, fortunately for me I’m not bothered by the cold. In fact I have been working outside for the last three days in a cotton T-shirt. When we go camping my wife brings along our winter coats. She also wears both coats while I stand around the campfire in my shorts.[(-D] Summer heat will be a different issue but we just installed new insulated garage doors which have reduced the heat build-up significantly.

Personally I hope the unsoldered rail joiners won’t be an issue. I intend to feed every piece of track, and FWIW I will solder the joiners in the curves.

Dave

Wayne, can you define “suitable and comfortable” environment?

Your statement seems to imply that most modelers operate in an unsuitable space. What is suitable? What is comfortable?

Rich

Well, in the context of the original post, I’d define it as an environment in which you can solder all of the rail joiners (if you wish to do so) and not have to worry that it will cause problems.

I’m sure that most of us have to make-do with the space we find and in many cases it’s less than ideal. I was fortunate to have a decent space available because I built my own house, but had I not insulated the entire basement, I might be experiencing some of the problems mentioned. However, the insulation was added as a practical solution to the fact that southern Ontario does have winter weather, and that insulation wasn’t solely for the benefit of the layout. We also have high humidity in the summer, so there’s a dehumidifier running - not my idea, but someone wanted to avoid that “basement smell”. Personally, I find the noise it makes irritating, but it’s preferable, I suppose, to the noise made by that someone. [:-^]

If you’re stuck with a less than ideal location for the layout, you either improve it as you can (perhaps at the expense of the layout itself) or you choose to add feeder wires, bus wires, etc., and enjoy it only when weather conditions permit.
I have several friends with layouts in a designated structure built specifically for their layout - in some ways, that’s an ideal situation. For me, though, it would be an added expense, as I’d also have to add heat and air conditioning.
I suppose this thread is a good illustration of the amount trouble to which model railroaders will go to have a layout. It wa

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If you’re stuck with a less than ideal location for the layout, you either improve it as you can (perhaps at the expense of the layout itself) or you choose to add feeder wires, bus wires, etc., and enjoy it only when weather conditions permit.
I have several friends with layouts in a designated structure built specifically for their layout - in some ways, that’s an ideal situation. For me, though, it would be an added expense, as I’d also have to add heat and air conditioning.
I suppose this thread is a good illustration of the amount trouble to which model railroaders will go to have a layout. It wasn’t my intention to criticise the situations which others may experience.

Wayne"

Precisely. If you feel strongly that soldered joints are necessary for a number of reasons AND you insist upon the economy and facility inherent in wooden framing under your tracks, you have little choice but to try to ‘moderate’ the space in which you build and operate a layout. If you permit a lot of variance in temperatures and/or humidity, and have little choice but to build with wood, you will have to avoid soldering most joints. You’ll have to leave some free to let the rails slide back and forth as the wood shrinks or expands seasonally.

I want reliability. God knows it’s a big demand in the hobby for all but the most resigned among us. I can’t have that eating and the slice of cake that is an unconditioned space. Not where I live. Last night we had a pineapple express come through that deposited 5, count 'em, 5 inches of rain…in 18 hours!! When I checked the digital panel at the back door near midnight, it read 98% humidity. My in-garage newly framed, drywalled, and painted space is not going to be good for my wood framing unless I leave a dehumidifier plugged in and on 24/7. Its an expense I have to swallow if I

To piggyback of this thread, how much track would you solder together? I have a simple two switch layout that i was planning on laying next week. The idea with soldering it was really to try to keep the rail from getting all cock-eyed as has happened to me before.

What I would do with a setup like you describe is to use light coats of acrylic latex caulk under the ties, spread on the roadbed. I would line it all up, with sliding joiners only, and use some track nails here and there to ensure nothing moves until the caulking sets up. Then, I would only solder the joiners that are anywhere along curves, but leave ALL OTHERS free to slide, especially if you dont’ intend to control your air space in the train room and you have wooden framing. Solder a feeder to every length of rail, though. It’s a bit tedious, but if your solders are good, you can expect highly reliable electrical connectivity throughout because of the feeders to each rail. AND, your sliding joiners will still to their jobs of keeping alignment but allowing some expansion and contraction and preventing buckles. Also, the latex caulking gives a bit and will help the track elements to move independently ofshrinking or expanding wood below them. If rails lengthen due to temperature swings, the sliding joiners will allow gap closure, and the caulking will allow the tracks to slide back and forth a little bit along their major axis as necessary.

I would solder all track that makes up a curve. And solder it before laying the rail. It is much easier to get a nice smooth curve with soldered joints than without. Without soldering you take the chance of having a small kink at the rail joiners.

I have around 40 feet of main line all spiked down, nothing soldered, except for a few feeder wires and no problems yet. I am also running 15 inch radius, works for me. I am setup in the basement cool in the winter, cool in the summer. Doug

OK, good to know. Would it be a good idea even if Im planning on pouring plaster around the track for a street? Im just wondering if this will affect the ability to expand and contract
.

I’ve read that it’s not really the track that expands and contracts, it is the wood that supports the track. Furthermore, expansion/contraction of the wood is largely a function of humidity changes rather than temperature changes. So one way to have a more stable track structure is to paint all the exposed surfaces of the wood so that the moisture content of the wood is ‘locked in’ and not exposed to changes in the room environment.

There also may be a difference between free standing benchwork and benchwork that is firmly anchored to the walls (which could tend to limit movement of the benchwork).

I’ve anchorded my benchwork to the walls (where possible), painted most all of my wood, tried to leave gaps (with unsoldered joiners) every six feet with soldered joiners and feeder wires in between the gaps. The normal seasonal extremes in my railroad room (insulated ex-garage, door replaced with a wall and one heat/air duct from the rest of the house) are typically low 60s to upper 70s. However, one winter we lost power for a week, the room got cold (upper 40s) and one section of track kinked where I hadn’t painted the sub-roadbed. I think what happened is the opposite of a “sun kink”, in this case the wood shrank more than the rails, putting the track into compression and it bowed.

Grinnell

ahh, good points, Wayne. At first, when I read your previous reply, I wasn’t sure if you were being critical of unfinished basements, for example.

In my own case, I don’t have problems with heating and cooling the basement or with humidity, but I have not drywalled the surroundings or finished the ceiling or added better lighting than my cheap fluorescent fixtures. [sigh]

Rich

That is what I was getting at earlier. If you build your sub bed out of foam and attach the track with caulk, I don’t think it is going to be an issue with maybe the exception of an untempered glass room in Death Valley where temps and sunlight swing tremendously.

For me, the drywall was an outshoot of insulating the basement, and it allowed me to cove all of the corners in the layout room. The walls are the backdrop for the layout, although I’ve not yet painted anything on them other than some pale blue sky.

I have cheap (used) fluorescent fixtures mounted on the underside of the ground floor’s joists, and above a suspended ceiling. The latter hides the ugly light fixtures and the ducts, piping, and wiring necessary in any house. When I added the partial second level, I used cheap fluorescent lights attached to the underside of it, but those are new lightweight electronic ones. There are three electrical circuits dedicated to the trainroom, all at or very close to capacity.
In addition to making this area a bright and pleasant place to enjoy the layout, finishing the room has eliminated track cleaning, other than a vacuuming of it once every year or two. (My layout is a DC operation, so not as fussy, perhaps, as DCC.) I do vacuum the concrete floor regularly and after doing any work on the layout.

Wayne

I think what I would do is have an expansion joint every foot of roadway and you should be ok

Doug