I hesitate to say anything without knowing what we’re talking about. Just looking at a Google map or satellite view along Third Street in Sioux City doesn’t reveal much of a problem with visibility there (perhaps you need to tell us where this problem is, which crossings don’t have gates, and so on).
Before I say anything else, listen to the guys who say that a quiet zone can’t be unilaterally established by the city. There are definitely rules to follow.
I don’t see the hotel in the area that you mentioned…is that a recent development?
It doesn’t appear to me that trains would have much speed going through there. I doubt that they’d cme out of nowhere and annihilate unsuspecting motorists or pedestrians. In addition to the crossing lights, gates, and bells, the locomotive bell will continue to be rung, and headlights are lit.
I guess that what I’m saying is, if procedures have been followed by all concerned, and the crossings are properly equipped, there shouldn’t be a problem with a quiet zone in an area like this. That’s a big “if”, though.
I’m going to have to come to Sioux City sometime and check out what’s there. It looks like it would be a riot…the Google satellite view shows an Alzheimers’ Center on…on!..one of the crossings, and if I look further east, across the river and into the yard, I’m seeing three empty hoppers that appear to be shoved off the end of one of the tracks!
FRA has a whole section of its website on the “train horn rule”. So, if you wantomething authoritative on this subject, rather than speculation, here it is:
Note that one of the links on this site is to “Locations of Quiet Zones”, which is a listing of exisitng quiet zones as of July, 2011. The listing shows locations which have qualified for quiet zone status under the FRA rule, either as “pre rule” or “new” quiet zones. One of quiet zones listed is a “new” QZ in Sioux City, IA on the BNSF. The listing doesn’t show what crossings are included in this quiet zone (and I don’t personally know which ones are), so I can’t readliy tell if the crossings mentioned in some of the other posts are included. But obviously Sioux City knows that they have to go through FRA to get a QZ and knows how do it, since they have done it before, so I would be pretty surprised if they attempted to createa QZ on their own, without complying with the FRA rule.
Further, having been involved in this subject in the past, I can virtually guarantee you that neither BNSF nor any other major railroad would comply with a local ordinance establishing a quiet zone unless the QZ had been properly established under the FRA rule. Further, you can be sure the FRA grade crossing people would themselves be reading the riot act to the city fathers if they attempted to establish a QZ outside of the FRA rule.
By the way, with respect to one of the posts on this tjhread dealing with horn volume, that’s also covered by the FRA rule.
Ok look at googlemaps again, find the Tyson Event Center, Stoney Creek Inn and Famous Daves. In between them you will see a bright white path, which is part of the Perry Creek Trail. The trail runs east/west in this section. This is the section bet
The orange guy sees a crossing with flashers and no gates, no signals for the cross street just south of the tracks, and a fence between the trail and the tracks west of Pearl Street (something that should be built to the east by the new inn, I’d hope). It looks from the map like Pearl Street would be the one to accommodate things at the Events Center, so I really would expect more lights and gates at that crossing.
Those crossings don’t look quiet-zone-worthy to me. But if there are enough trains there to make the trip worthwhile (from the looks of things, I doubt it), and if Famous Dave’s has a view of the action, we just might check it out in person (that’s the crossing with the Alzheimer’s Center!).
Could it be a pace where they had quiet zones grandfathered in?
I know of one city that has a ordinance against train horns. They have lots of passive (and active) crossings over busy streets, but the crews do provide flag protection. I feel for those guys… playing in traffic is no fun.
Falcon48 has it right. We have been through this “silent rail” discussion in Bismarck, Jamestown and Fargo in North Dakota, and I can GUARANTEE you unconditionally that NO railroad, in Sioux City or anyplace else, is going to observe a silent-rail crossing that consists of a no-horn sign and nothing else.
Incidentally, the kind of protection required by the feds can run up to $500,000 per crossing.
The gates at Pearl were added later, well after the hotel opened and are there now. The same with the raised median instead of just a surface painted turn lane. The street you see that goes behind the event center as you pan around is what would be considered 2nd Street. I am actually not sure of the name to be honest. The fence you see parallel to the trail was installed when the trail was built.
Pierce Street accommodates event center traffic better than Pearl if coming from the east. People also take Gordon Dr, which intersects with Pearl also handles event center traffic. If you pan and face south then move the orange guy along Pearl you will come to where it terminates at Gordon Dr. Remember I said Pierce St. is one way going south. Pearl is 2 way north and south. Gordon is 2 way east and west.
This area is a couple of miles southwest of the BNSF railroad yard and less than that from the stone stockpile that is the destination for much of the traffic. I believe the yard limits extend clear into South Dakota to service a large bakery that receives flour by rail. Train speeds through the area are low; I would estimate in the 15mph range. My guess as to the traffic would be on the order of a half dozen trains a day tops.
You need to view the scene on Google Earth! None of the 5 tracks in that area seem to have bumpers or anything to keep cars from rolling off! Well… the middle track has 3 hopper cars blocking the end!
See for yourself!
Copy the next line to the clipboard (left-click on one end and drag the mouse to the other end while holding the mouse button down, then type ‘Ctrl-C’):
42°29’31.32"N 96°22’49.26"W
Then run Google Earth and click in the “Fly To” textbox, type ‘Ctrl-V’ and press the ‘Enter’ key. Then zoom in on it (move the mouse cursor to the square that will appear in the center and roll the mouse scroll wheel away from you).
Resolution is VERY good here.
(This is valid until Google Earth updates the view from 6/2011, after that you will have to use the Historical Imagery to revert back to that date.)
This is the small BNSF yard, not the area of downtown I am talking about. In fact the yard is east of downtown. The water way that terminates just to the south is the old Floyd River.
I am not sure why you are referring us to this area.
It was an off-topic reply to an off-topic comment about an off-topic comment about what someone saw while looking at the general area associated with the Topic. Nothing more.
[#offtopic] The railyard that has gondolas shoved off the east end is the location of the stone stockpile of L.G Everest Inc. The stockpiles themselves are the round objects to the southwest of the abandoned gondolas. The stone is quarried in South Dakota and brought by shortline railroad to this location until sold. Everest has a large fleet of used gondolas from various other lines (reporting mark LGEX). Two or three years ago, they bought over 100 brand new cars, so I would assume these are among the older ones and will remain in place until salvaged.
The rock is known locally as “Sioux Falls granite”, but it neither comes from Sioux Falls nor is granite. It has a pink color and can be found as the balast in many lines of the upper Midwest.
During the summer, L.G. Everist runs a 100 car train per day down that line to Sioux City and back. Their railroad is the Dakota & Iowa. Most folks in Sioux Falls refer to it as the “rock train”. As in "Sorry I’m late, I got held up by the rock train. The timing works out, so that the empty rock train is usually winding it’s way through town about 5:00 p.m. in the summertime.[sigh]
The same pink rock is also used as chip seal on a lot of Union county roads and highways. They apply it, spray it with oil, the DO NOT roll over it with a machine to pack it down, they let the people who drive on the roads do that for them. Until it psacked down hard enough it is kicked up and sticks to and can cause paint damage to your car and the road is completely unusable for bicycle riders and a lot of motorcycle riders. Union County are cheapskates when it comes down to it.
The price for so-called “supplementary safety measures” to support a quiet zone can vary significanty depending on what measures are chosen. $500,000 likely represents the cost of a 4-quad gate installation, which is typically the most expensive alternative. Raised medians (which prevent a vehicle from crossing into opposing lanes of traffic to get around standard gates) are a whole lot cheaper, and would normally be the method of choice where they can be used. But they can’t be used everywhere. The FRA rules require a minimum of 60 feet in advance of the crossing. So, if there is an intersection within the 60 foot distance (common where a road parallels a railroad), it won’t be possible to use medians (unless FRA grants a waiver of the minimum length requirements at the particular location).