I talked to a hobby shop owner at a train show in south central Florida, and he said that Lionel wanted him to place a $5000.00 minimum order before they would ship to him directly or pay a much higher non-dealer percentage fee. Another guy he ordered from wanted only $1000.00 min. order and that was who he used more often. Sometimes Lionel would send him the $1000.00 engine to sell and not the lower priced items.
Also another hobby shop wanted me to place a $500.00 order for Gargraves track or switches, he don’t get a discount unless you purchase a certain dollar amount. Needless to say I didn’t need $500.00 worth of Gargraves track and switches.
It is not the hobby shop owner who wants to have their hands tied financially, but it is the vendor or company that sells to them that ties their hands up financially. It may boil down to the old principle that it is more paper work and time or shipping work for a smaller order verses a large order, and that is why it is cheaper to buy from internet giants, than from directly from the company.
Lee F.
That is a squeeze, sort of boxing in the retailer, that boxes in the buyer, all of which seems counter intuitive if your retailer is your customer front line representative, but then again, as these shops are being dominated over by the volume of internet sales, perhaps they are looked at as “small peanuts” …it still seems sort of well…like extortion…do this or we wont deal with you…which must mean the manufacturers themselves are not responsible for the demise of the mom and pop store but certainly are a contributing factor. I miss the social aspect myself, where a bunch of us would gab about trains at the store…
Given that the general trend is towards more expensive trains aimed at a older deeper pocket consumer base who dont want to built anything but just open the box and put it on the layout leading to more and more RTR items that are 50-100% more expensive than there kit counterpart along with more and more items pre-loaded with digital controls, digital sound and special effects, is it any wonder a locomotive can easily approach 4 figures. This is typical in all scales. the average mom and pop stores can’t stock alot of these higher prices besides not alot of people in general can afford these items. Starter sets usually only appear at LHS around Xmas and what ever doesnt sell then stays dusty on the shelves until it does. One dealer told me that after Xmas he stops stocking alot of train stuff as it just doesnt sell well enough.
Part of the problem has been stated before, most of us in this hobby are not spring chicken, I’m in my late 40’s and I consider myself a young whippersnapper whenever I go to shows, its good to see kids at the shows but aside from Thomas theres not alot of trains in their lives these days for these kids to connect trains into their daily lives. As more young people use light rail and commuter rail services maybe we will see that reconnection once again (but for myself I’ll freely admit I find modern trains homogonistic and lacking in appeal compared to what I grew up watching and riding). I think some manufacturers of late have placed too much emphisis chasing the rich old guys and not paying as much attention to growing the hobby.
As the market gets pricier it drives out the mom and pops who often cant meet the manufacturers minimum order requirements and eventually drop trains entirely or simply shut down. It’s kinda a vicious cycle.
“Big money got a heavy hand, big money take control. Big money got a mean streak, big money got no soul.” Neil Peart, The Big Money 1985.
Remember them good ole’ days when Lionel salesmen had to pound the pavement everyday to even get their products in the stores at all?
Becky
I suppose I am a good example of this demographic. I turned 60 this year and I got fascinated with all this and began running trains at 5 years old with a Marx Commodore Vanderbuilt set back in Chicago and Ive come full circle having gone back to Marx for a variety of reasons, one of them was what you described as a contributing factor, not the central issue with modern toy trains, but cost did come into play when I had to get off the fence about “the next step”. I rediscovered DIY and am having a better time I am retired so I have the time to tinker…it’s more rewarding than out of the box for me. What happens elsewhere in the hobby still interests me I think simply because I have been in it for so long, and these current trends …well I have a lot of empathy for some of the .issues like cost, availability etc for my younger cohorts, Which is probably just an example of my comparing then and now. There were informal layaway purchases when I was younger, more personal service, catalogs that rarely cancelled an item, advice and mentoring that came from the mom and pop store.and maybe it’s just nostalgia…but I can’t help but wonder what people do when they don’t have the internet. I guess we don’t hear from them. …
I think hobby shops are a thing of the past.
I blame LIONEL (since they’ve been the O gauge leading manufacturer for more years than anybody else) most for making it happen. Their prices have more than doubled this century, despite reusing the same molds over and over. It’s smarter and more economical for the average model railroading fan to buy new old stock, than it is to buy new current items. Hobby shop owners end up selling their new old stock after years of the stuff languishing in their inventory. Why? The prices on the new old stock usually remains stagnant, while the new current items carry newer and higher MSRPs despite having the same, basic features. Customers ask themselves, “Should I buy a new coal dump car for $75, or should I buy a NOS dump car for $25?”
Hobby shop owners can’t keep stock for years before selling it. They need quick turnarounds on their inventory investments. The huge price increases Lionel has implemented fostered a slow turnover for inventory in the market for trains. How can Menard’s charge a lot less for comparable products? Surely they’ve had the same basic costs that Lionel has had. Many of Lionel’s molds have been reused countless times over the years. Sure they may have to do some maintenance on them occasionally, but that doesn’t compare to creating new molds entirely. How can Menards undercut Lionel? Lionel’s policies for manufacturing on demand stuff is great for rich people, but crazy for the average family who doesn’t have a lot of money to spare. When my kids were young, there’s no way I would have wanted to order expensive items one or two years in advance for my kids for Christmas or their birthdays. Timeliness is much more important for toys than it is for a lot of other things. Cabbage Patch Kids, Teeny Babies, Tickle Me Elmo, etc., are items that had huge demands manufacturers couldn’t keep up wi
Well, I for one, don’t not think the Hobby Shop (or LHS) is a thing of the past.
My train stores (Trains and Things, Ewing, NJ and Holly Beach, Wildwood, NJ) service my needs very well. I have the ability to do a layaway on things that I want but cannot afford by doing a depost and paying overtime, and to Phranks comment, I have purchased a LionChief Plus Blue Comet, and more than likely the First Responders GP38 (Which I happened to have trained (pun intended) on). I have bought a LionChief CamelBack as well. Pricing? I think the pricing on the new stuff is reasonable and considering what you get in the LionChief line a bargain.
Rolling stock and accessories, I buy a mix of old and new.
The role of the LHS has changed as there is more marketing and doing mail and web stuff, being active in buying and selling of train collections. I have bought my share of special runs from Holly Beach and Larry, a former firefighter, is a great guy. Same with Tony at Trains and Things, I used to service Tony’s car dealership when I worked for Enterprise.
Tony has, about 2 years ago, moved into a bigger store in the same shopping center. And when I go, I’ll spent a couple of hours there.
So, just like the demise of the hobby theory, which I feel has been debunked, the LHS can and will thrive as long as the owner(s) cater to their customers wants and needs and can market their services to the community.
Like anjdevil said… I don’t think the LHS is dead. We just had a second LHS open in town a couple years ago and both are still up and running. For train stuff I go to one (the new place has some train related items, but is more ‘genera’ than train focused) the LTS (Local Train Store), as I call it, is all trains of all scales. It is a great place to go and talk with like minded people about trains, the state of the industry, etc and the owner will match the pricing from the big online retailers. This cuts into their margins and has resulted in their on-hand inventory being reduced. They also no longer do consignments, you have to sell to them for a rather reduced price and then they resell it for a profit… kind of a give and take, depending on the item I either go that route, or sell it myself.
We have had a few new shops specializing in trains open in Florida.
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They are not dead down here.
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-Kevin
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Kevin: Where? (Not in or around Orlando – that I know about) Thanks.
There’s several in Florida in your area, more or less.
Colonial Photo and Hobby, 634 N. Mills St, Orlando. 407-841-1485
www.colonialphotohobby.com Maybe you know about that one?
Moving down the Gulf Coast…
Zitnik Trains 5193 73d Ave. N. Tampa Bay-Pinellas Park 727-201-9668
www.zitniktrains.com I haven’t been to this one.
Gulf Coast Model Railroad 3222 Clark Rd. Sarasota 941-923-9303
www.gcmrr.com I’ve been to this one, very impressive.
Metro Trains and Hobbies 12951 Metro Parkway Ft. Myers 239-332-0422
www.metrotrainsandhobbies.com I was there last week, a bit light on the O gauge this time, but maybe the infusion of Christmas stock hasn’t happened yet? Great guys in there, by the way. I always stop in when I’m in the area visiting family.
Well that’s a start, at least the ones I know about.
Firelock76: Thanks for your reply.
I am familiar with Colonial ( It’s been around awhile) and there is H&R Trains in Pinellas Park with repair service.
My question to Kevin was that he mentioned a few NEW shops.
I appreciate your list.
Traindaddy does not travel too much anymore. The Gulf Coast is, at least, an hour and a half away. Was hoping that the new ones Kevin was talking about would be closer.
Again, thanks.
Anytime Traindaddy, glad to be of assistance!
I don’t blame you for wanting to limit your drive time. We drove through Orlando on Route 4 week before last. GROAN! The traffic’s gotten worse every time we’ve gone through on our way to Estero and the road construction’s never finished! Never again! We made our way back to Route 95 cross-country, 80 to 29 to 27 to 70 into Fort Pierce and then north on 95. A whole lot easier!
The Internet has caused many retail businesses to close. First, it was the bookstores. Many of my train books have come from stores we used to visit frequently, and are gone. There is only one bookstore chain left here in LoCal.
Most recently, it is the Home Improvement stores that are closing. Only Home Depot is left.
Most of the Train stores have closed, including the one where I bought most of my Lionel.
But, I will say it is there is still room for a great Train store, if located in the right location, which is what I see in the ones that have survived. In a somewhat upscale area, seems to still work out.
Paul
There’s not many Hobby Shops in my area… the closest one that does O gauge is in Springfield Ma, and I stopped going there several years back, because they don’t stock any used/affordable equipment anymore, the new stuff is too expensive for my budget, and their service just didn’t feel very friendly to me. Once I learned how to repair my own trains, there was no longer any real reason for me to drop by since it’s roughly an hour away. I absolutely LOVE the environment of a “real” hobby shop- but I generally don’t like to spend big bucks, since my budget isn’t a lot. I just can’t justify $50-80 for a generic freight car, when I have all the skills to just wait for a vintage car I like more, buy a few old cars with some issues, and repair them. In addition, it seems like it’s much harder to find truly ”friendly” service in stores. What ever happened to going out of one’s way to keep a customer? A lot of us forget it, but impressions make a huge difference. I’m generally much more inclined to visit a store with friendly staff, people who seem to really want me to walk out of their store feeling happy and eager to come back again. If there was a local ”Brick and Mortar” hobby shop in my area, particularly if it offered used equipment, I’d certainly visit it regularly, and probably buy something if they had the right item for the right price. But probably not, if they had unfriendly staff.
I remember when I was little, just dying to visit a hobby shop and look at trains, so my dad sat down with the phone book, and we tried calling numbers, but every single hobby shop we found in the book had a dead number… they had all gone out of buisness 10-20 years ago.