Is the internet killing our hobby shops?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

A small rant from me…

There are 2 hobby stores near me. I goto one, more often because the owner deals with alot of small small companys that are not in the Walthers book. To me, the variety and rareness of some of this stuff, is worth the extra dollar. Even though I am 20, I still prefer to walk around and browse…something you cant do online.
Everytime I go and shoot the scat with owner, I hear the same rederic " Business aint so hot". And both seem to be for the same reason.

Exhibit:
People are going to these stores…asking them to order the latest greatest locomotives, watching them perform on the demo layout and then going online and buying it.[:(!]

In your opinion…is the internet killing our local hobby shops? Are they doing ok in your area ?Do these stores need to give up service and variety to be 10 cents cheaper than the other guy? Or are hobby stores bound for the same fate that our steam locomotives had?

What do you think?

2

hi unfortunatly there seems to be a general shutting down of the LHS 4 or 5 stores that I used to frequent have shut their doors in southern ontario. Some of it here was the price and quantity of new product comming out but alot of it has been due to ebay buying and the like. Myself I won’t buy online until I know there is absoluly no choice to grt it in one of my locals,we are shooting ourselves in the foot by buying so much online I’d rather spend a bit more and know that I’ve got a knowledgable and helpfull store owner to back my purchases, if I do buy online I will sshop at a sight where there is an actual hobby shop as well at least I’m helping a local owner and not somepne selling from his/her basement. Rob

3

I buy more on line than i do at the lhs.With the price of todays engines and the fact that i have a uncontrollable desire to constantly add to my roster,The fact that I live in a more rual area and there is only one lhs in close driving distance has alot to do with this.But no matter i have to shop for the best price if lhs wants 179.oo for new p2k gp9 with qsi, and i can get it from on online seller for 129.00 where do you think i will buy it from.There are alot of major hobby shops that sell online not just guys selling out of there basement,because they can advertise to a much larger customer base they can order more of a product and make there money in volume with lower prices. I do however try to spend at least some money every month at the lhs,just to support them.

4

In these modern technological times, I think it’s a case of “if ya can’t beat’em, join 'em”. Hobby shops that are using the Internet to sell either through web sites or eBay are doing alright - but I think the stubborn ones who think they can continue to rely on the drop-in trade to keep their doors open are going to fall by the wayside.

The nearest LHS to me is a 5 hour round trip by car, and I do patronize them whenever I’m in their town, three or four times a year. But without being able to buy mail order, either from ads, Internet, or eBay, I simply wouldn’t be able to model, period.

The web has helped a lot of things, but it’s also ruined a lot of things as we used to know them. But it’s here to stay, so hobby shops who want to stay in business will have to learn to use this new tool to avail themselves of new customers, or be left at the station.

I think what’s hurting the LHS and the hobby in general more than the web is the increasing price of things, especially from manufacturers who have dropped 7 dollar kits in favour of $25 RTR - but that’s another thread.

As always, just [2c]

5

I have noticed one trend in particular over here recently - mail order. Two of my LHS have recently started running adverts in MRR magazines and seem to be doing well as a result. Branching out into mail order sales seems to be a good way to grow the business, assuming the store can employ the extra staff they need to run this. Online sales and using eBay are also great tools - there is one large retailer over here that has taken to selling large amounts of equipment on eBay - if they buy non-running locos as part of a collection they put them straight onto eBay as “Restoration projects”. I think the growth in online sales will be great for those stores that use the new tools they have available to them, but may cause problems for the stores that do not “keep up”. Just my opinion!

6

since I don’t have a local hobby shop in town and have not had one for the past 25 years I have no choice but to use the internet. Most of what I buy is from “local” shops who advertise on the net or use Ebay so, I guess I do support someones local hobby shop.
I want to give a different perspective on this though. I am a small manufacturer who runs his business from his home. I manufacture HO scale coal & scrap loads as well as a small line of decals. I went to the major distributors and pimped my product to them. What I was told is that the profit margin for them to carry my stuff would be too low for them so they basically told me to take a hike. I approached several hobby shops directly with dealer pricing and got very little response. Now for me to get my product out to the people who want it I have to go the internet route. And yes, I do have a good response to my product there.

When I need to buy something I will wait untill I am in the town (150 mile round trip) that has a couple of hobby shops and purchase from them if possible.

Dan Pikulski
www.DansResinCasting.com

7

I’d say it’s a contributing factor. I get just about everything, except out of production and odd stuff I get on ebay, from my LHS. But, he discounts heavily and he’s a nice guy to all his customers. Unfortunately he’s winding things down and is retiring soon.
Wal-Mart has proven beyond doubt, that to the vast majority of American consumers, price matters more than everything else combined. And the internet has allowed people to sell stuff with virtually no overhead for the lowest cost.
The major retailers are crying because Holiday sales are down. At the same time, online Holiday sales are way up, and a lot of these sales are to companies with brick and mortar operations. I’d be interested to see what the total numbers show without all the smoke and mirrors.

8

Survival of the fittest!! If the guy in his basement can sell on the web for a low price, the hobby shop can also. They don’t need to shut down, but they can supplement business. Most choose not to, and then blame others for their failure. The LHS near me has it’s address published in Walthers circulars that I get, stating that they participate in Walthers sales, but they do not. 100% list price on everything, no matter what.

The same thing applies to books and magazine subscriptions. If I can buy Kalmbach books at Amaqzon for 20-50% off list, why doesn’t Kalmbach sell them for that? I can renew my magazine subscription through a clearing house for $20, but Kalmbach wants $30. Does that make sense???

I am building my little empire for my enjoyment, not to support another business. If I can buy for less somewhere else, that’s where the money goes. If you look for the best deal on your house, new car, washing machine, etc, why not model rr’ing supplies?

9

One Answer to your Question,YES!
The Internet is the most POWERFUL TOOL around today!
Even I will idmit I myself must shop online because there are NO LHS in area for more than 50 miles.
There is a LHS in Lincoln,Neb. but im not gona drive over a 100 miles just for one Locomotive or I have at least 200 Dollars on hand or if I go Railfanning in Lincoln it self.

10

The internet is changing the way people shop for everything. Bricks and mortar stores have to adapt to this new reality or fail. My local shop has really done a lot to make sure it stays in the forefront.

  1. Prices as good or better than most internet sites.
  2. A layout that is open for public operation at the weekends. This brings folks in from all over the place. The hobby shop is buzzing at the weekends.
  3. Expertise. You can see methods and ideas demonstrated on the shop layout.
  4. Digitrax expertise. Great Digitrax pricing and knowledge. Decoder installation as well.
  5. Main focus is on MRR, but offers great deals on RC parts. When the RC shipment comes in the place is seething!

Bottom line. I used to get most of my hobby stuff off the web. I still buy from e-bay, but most of the time, what I want can be had for the same or better prices in the LHS.

11

I’m afraid that anyone who does not recognize the damage on-line purchases are doing to kill off the LHS has to be very naive. There used to be 4 or 5 hobby shops in my immediate area. Currently I am down to 1. If that one should go under, it will be over an a one hour, 40 mile, drive to the next nearest one for me.

But, as another poster has already pointed out, the great majority of hobbyists today simply can not afford to pay list or near-list for the increasingly exorbitant prices the manufacturers are demanding for their latest products. I freely admit that I am forced to shop on-line if I want to purchase any of the newer locomotives and certain rolling stock (if bought in numbers). If I were not to do so, I’d be essentially shut out of the hobby where significant new purchases are concerned.

Of course, if on-line shopping totally replaces the LHS it will cause a great reduction in the hobby’s viability. If you have to wait a week for that shipment of cork, flex-track, WS ballast, or other very basic items you suddenly find you need at 4pm on a friday afternoon, you are going to progressively put off doing any layout work and many will undoubtedly withdraw from the hobby altogether.

CNJ831

12

Yes, and the LHSs have been under fire since long before the internet. When I got back into R/C model airplanes in the mid 70s, Tower Hobbies had giant selection and great prices. In the late 80s when I got back into HO, Standard Hobby was the paramount in competition! So, for 30-35 years, the hobby shop business has been a tough business to make money in. It’s pretty simple to sit here on this forum and shoot arrows at the STUPID LHS which doesn’t change for the future! However, the realities of business in this constantly changing atmosphere are truly frightening! Any hobby shop proprietor that can roll with the punches, bob and weave and stay in business has my utmost respect!

13

Mail order was the death-blow to commercial slot racing nearly forty years ago (although it’s a lousy economic model anyway) and the internet is a similar peril to the hobby shop. I understand that Horizon is already cracking down on discounters w/out a brick & mortar storefront.

Even to this day you cannot hook up with a slot car distributor unless you send 'em a photo of your raceway and a copy of the lease.

14

Sometimes I think we can overlook the not so subtle fact that the option of online purchacing promotes the hobby, which promotes business at the LHS

I think I can honestly say that my online purchaces have not hurt my LHS one bit. If they had the product on the shelves, or could have ordered it, I would have bought it there. except for some of the locomotives and rolling stock that I got at smoking deals online, like 1/2 to 1/3 the price, including eBay and were past the possability of ordering even if we tried.Those loco and freightcar purchaces didn’t prevent me from making any loco and car purchaces at the LHS.

When I learned that Athearn ran a new batch of SP flatcars, first place I tried was my LHS. They came through for me, cool! Bought 14. In fact it was ONLINE that I learned they were available.

Recently I learned that a couple new model car kits became available again (another hobby of mine) First place I looked, LHS. They had one of the 2, I got it. They ordered the other. Great! Now if they couldn’t have or wouldn’t have tried, sure I’d go online. By the way, it was on eBay that I learned one was available, and the Scale Auto forum that I learned of the other.

Sometimes online I’ll find things that my LHS could get for me, but I couldn’t afford locally, and wouldn’t buy.

That’s when online purchaces actually helps the LHS, since it further promotes the hobby that in turn brings me into their doors.

There are probably people who wouldn’t be in the hobby at all, except for the fact that discount houses made it possable for them. Then they buy at least some stuff at the LHS, purchaces they wouldn’t have if not for the online purchases. Follow me? Dan

15

Buddy in the basement doesn’t have to shell out $1000/month in rent + heat + electricity on top of his household expenses does he!

Gordon

16

Gordon,
The point I am trying to make about the guy in the basement is that the guy at the hobby shop can INCREASE sales by adding mail order and internet sales. If the guy in the basement can sell a P2K GP9 for $30 and make some money, so can the hobby shop guy. My experience with hobby shops near me is they try to make a killing on each item they sell instead of making a little and selling a lot. If they increase volume, they also get discounts from the distributors, driving their costs down further and profits increase.

17

What people don’t realize is to have a nice store to show off your goods costs money!
If the company you worked for didn’t make enough income to support all the fixed expenses & your salary, you wouldn’t have a job. Think about that!

A lot of people don’t think of this as they slam the LHS for charging more.
Sure it’s great to make a few extra bucks from your basement but do all these cheap sources of locomotives & rolling stock sell couplers & other needed supplies as well?

Think about that!!!

Gordon

18

Sure you could add business like that. It would be a great idea.
But the point I’m trying to make is if you had no overhead [aka a store & all the expenses to go with it] anyone could sell a locomotive that cost say $40 to buy & turn around & sell it at $50 + shipping.
You’ve obviously haven’t been close to anyone who has owned a small business.
Not all LHS’s are crooks.
Some are there just to make a living.

Gordon

19

If a LHS owner can’t compete in the real world, he should go under.

For decades, LHS’ have had a virtual monopoly on selling products to us modelers. If we wanted something, we’d have to go to the LHS and pray that they had the item in stock. If they did, we’d then have the privelidge to pay full MSRP for the item. If not, we’d have to pray that the owner was a decent businessman and would actually order, and RECEIVE the product we wanted. If not, we were SOL. Mail order houses were notoriously bad at customer-service, and sometimes closed down AFTER cashing your check!

Mail order got wise, the bad ones mostly died off, and the good ones became hobby powerhouses. Service went up, prices went down, and reliability improved greatly. Those LSH owners with half a brain stayed competitive, while the rest just bitched.

Then came the internet and a generally more price-conscious hobby. Consumers in the 1990s demanded good service, quick responce, and low prices. The internet began to give consumers what they wanted, followed by the mail order houses. Those LHS owners with half a brain increased their stock, improved their relationship with their suppliers, and joined the fray. The rest just bitched.

Is the internet a good thing for the hobby? Definitely yes, from both the modeler’s and manufacturer’s perspectives. We get what we want., reliably and at the lowest possible price, and the manufacturers are able to better gauge how many of any given model they should make. The internet also allows for instant transfer of ideas and knowledge, giving us more models of higher quality. Is the internet our single source LHS of the future? Doubtful, considering all the consumables this hobby requires (who’s going to buy one pack of WS ground foam, five #11 blades, three packs of Evergreen styrene, and one tube of glue off the internet?). But the days of a modeler wandering into the local LHS, looking at a Kato diesel at full MSRP, and walking out the door with it are almos

20

I will always support my local hobby stores and visit them. I always enjoy looking and purchasing at the stores. Nothing can beat that…rambo1…