I’ve got another post going asking about the reasons to go DCC (or not). After digesting all I can on the subject, I am still on the fence. To get better educated, I want to review specific systems so I can figure out what is best for me, do a cost estimate (I’m a retired analyst), find the best supplier, and learn as much as I can about the "chosen’ system. This will obviously get me “ready to jump in” when I make the decision to do so.
My problem is that there is no “Consumers Report” on DCC systems. In other words, I have not as yet found an unbiased review (be it from ads, hobby shops, or individuals) on the available companies and systems. Of course ads tout their own company, hobby shops promote what they sell, and individuals tend to support strongly what they have (or they hate what they have). Of course I have the Kalmbach DCC books, and while they give a good analysis of each system, they don’t help me figure out what is the “best buy” or “most reliable company / support”, or will serve my situation best.
I estimate going to DCC - and doing it right - will run about $2k. So obviously I want to make the best overall decision as to who to go with, so I don’t waste money, time, and get unneeded stress.
Surely many of you experienced the same dilemma when you converted, and I would really like to hear about your decision making process - and if you are happy with the result.
Tony’s has a pretty good comparison section for them. Not very biased at all. http://tonystrains.com/productcompare/index.htm
Glad to see you revised your cost estimate up a bit. $2k is probably a more realistic #.
Thanks for the input, I’ll pull their report after I post this. You know, I really don’t mind spending the money, but don’t want to go through the “should of, would of, and could of” that sometimes comes about when committing to a long term thing - be it a DCC system, car, couch, or wife for that matter!
A better process would be for you to list what you WANT from a DCC system (what you would like it to do). I used to sell MRC, Digitrax and NCE systems. For my customers, I had a set of questions they would answer, then I would show them their options. Here are a few of the questions…
Will you be operating alone or with others?
Do you or will you join a local club or group? If so, what system do they use?
Do you have a LHS that stocks a certain DCC system?
Would you like a computer connection to simplify those complicated decoder programming sessions?
How many locos will you RUN at once?
(again from a hands on) Which controller feels better in your hands? (typically they have a hands on with Digitrax, MRC and NCE systems).
What do you have to spend?
Are you looking at a Radio system? Simplex or Duplex?
Well Mobilman44, it’s kinda like saying “I want to buy a new car. Which one is best, a GM, a Ford or a Chrysler??” They’re all good or they wouldn’t have been around as long as they have been. Each one has a variety of products (cars, trucks, minivans) each with their own options, and their own strengths and weaknesses. I could say my little two-door Chevy is a great car for commuting to work and getting around town, but that won’t help you much if you’re looking for a big pickup to haul hay and feed sacks around your farm.
Same thing with DCC. Lenz, NCE, Digitraz, MRC and the others all make good quality reliable systems. Each has options and strengths and weaknesses. If programming on the main is important to you with a wireless throttle, you need to check out which systems offer that. If being able to ‘toggle’ between locomotives, rather than having to input the ID number every time is important, check that out. It’s not really a matter of quality or reliability as it is tailoring the DCC system to your wants/needs.
Most all the time I will operate the RR alone, with one other person occasionally.
I would at max operate 9/10 units at the same time. That sounds crazy, but I will often run two all powered ABBA consists, and a two unit switcher lashup.
There is no consideration for getting involved with a club.
A computer interface could be needed - not sure.
I know that one LHS stocks NCE and MRC, and I believe Digitrax is at the other LHS. I am not so much concerned with this, as I am with getting into a company that will be around for awhile, offer all I need, and provide decent support.
Money is not the major consideration. I will spend what it takes to give me the best I can fully use, but don’t want to grossly overbuy.
A tethered system would be best (I think) for me at first, but I would like the option to go wireless at a later date.
I guess the above helps narrow it down, but to be very honest, I am just not aware of what my future needs would be (i.e. turntable control, turnout control, signaling, whatever). So its hard to ask questions when you are not fully certain what is really meaningful.
Actually, that’s not true of DCC systems. I upgraded from a MRC Command 2000 about a year or so ago(maybe longer the way time flies now) and the system that met my needs the best was the Digitrax Zephyr. That system had already been on the market for several years. Digitrax is on the verge of introducing a new 28 function duplex radio throttle, and if I decide to get it, I will still be able to Use my Zephyr command station with it.
From the answers you gave me, I would like to recommend to you either the Digitrax Super Empire Builder, Digitrax Super Chief or the NCE Pro Cab.
In terms of number of locos running at one, a consist counts as ONE locomotive. Just an FYI.
I suggest you go to your LHS and get a hands-on with both the NCE and Digitrax systems. A few things to keep in mind:
NCE has a nifty feature called RECALL. Make sure to play with it when you have a hands on. It is like on your TV remote where you push a button and you go back to the last channel you were looking at. The NCE throttle allows you to push that button and control the last locomotive (or consist) you were controlling. This is very helpful to controlling multiple consists at once. This Recall stack can be as deep as 6 if you wish, but the default is 2.
NCE’s programming interface through the hand-held is wonderful. It will walk you through the programming.
Digitrax’s current top-throttle is the DT400x (where x depends on the features). It has 2 knobs for controlling 2 trains at the same time.
Programming with the DT400 takes a bit of practice, but it isn’t all that difficult.
Both the NCE and Digitrax mid-range systems (the ones I have pointed out to you) have a 5 amp capacity. More than plenty to handle your uber-consists.
Digitrax will allow you to run 1 analogue locomotive under address 00 (even though I don’t recommend you do this for a few reasons), as NCE will not.
Digitrax’s interface will run you between 40 and 100 dollars (MS100 or Locobuffer). NCE’s interface is a straight through RS232 cable. Costs about 10 bucks. In terms of a computer, I use an old one that I payed 30 dollars for. Decoder Pro is not a computer-hog program.
This forum is a pretty good sounding board. People are not afraid to speak their mind about subjects.
Nobody complains about the DCC system they have. Really, nobody. To me, that says that people are all pretty happy with their own systems. Since we have a pretty good cross-section here, that indicates that all the systems are pretty good, and the differences between them are more cosmetic than substantive.
Back a few years ago, the standard warning was “Remember, a low-end starter system is just that. If it is not upgradeable, then you are stuck with it until you replace it.” Most of these are now eBay-only items, so they’re less of a concern. A lot of people are very happy with the Digitrax Zephyr, the last remaining starter system from years past, because Digitrax provides a convenient upgrade path and allows you to integrate the Zephyr into your larger system very easily.
My Lenz system has been running just great for over 3 years now. Back when I bought it, I chose on the basis of a few parameters, most of which are now out-of-date. First, the Lenz was a 5-amp system from the start. Most others were 2 1/2 amps or less, at that time. Next, the Lenz supported more functions, nice for sound, which was just starting to be important. Again, other manufacturers have improved on this area as well. I think my Lenz has a lifetime warrantee, which is still the best in the business. But mostly, I liked the hand-held (tethered) throttle unit. It’s got big buttons, while the others all have small buttons. It’s personal preference, I know, but the throttle is your personal interface to the rest of the system, and you really want to be comfortable with it.
You’ve got one requirement that should be emphasized in your shopping. You plan to run 9-10 engines simultaneously, in big 4-unit consists. T
Mr, Beasley has some very good points. Almost no one gets on here and rants about the defects or disappointments of whatever it was he felt he should buy. Some of those decisions were based on advice offered here by well-meaning posters, while others made up their own minds based on information they took from a number of sources. The only complaints, if they could be so characterized, come from zappers who like to zing someone who reports some difficulty or lack of understanding and needs help. The replies run the likes of, “Well, what can you expect with ABC’s system?” and other helpful diatribes.
We all get one if we’re going to, and we learn how to use it. Digitrax, I must confess, as a user of the Super Empire Builder, is a bit of a grind when it comes to the learning curve. But, you spend half an hour here, half an hour there, read and reread, look at the DT400 throttle and press buttons. Eventually, you never have to return to the manual. Sure, the buttons on the DT400 could be larger, buy you’ll pry it away from my cold dead hands. (Was that over the top? [(-D]) I love the double encoder knobs that lets me run two engines/consists at once, I love the “Don’t mess with me!” programming capablility it has with all my various decoders…it spanks 'em, and I love its steadfast reliability.
But I have never held another throttle, nor witnessed its use. So, really, what do I know? I must be missing something about all the other systems out there that dutifully do their masters’ bidding day after day.
I have heard really good things about Zimo. The Cadillac of DCC systems. I could get a Sunset Brass HO CPR Selkirk (with QSI sound) for the price, plus have enough left over to get a Division Point caboose to go with it. Yikes!
Joe Fugate ran a “clinic” for DCC here about two and a bit years ago. It might still turn
Just a note, the DT400 has a recall stack of recently used locos as well. That’s not just an NCE feature.
As for the throttles, I’ve played the the PH Pro as well at the LHS. To me, the DT400 fits to hand better, which is probably counterintuitive based on the way they look and are shaped.
And I just can’t say I’d EVER recommend the Super Empire Builder as the first and only Digitrax system. The lack of a dedicated program track is the major reason. Lack of CV readback is another. The Zephyr actually has more features than the SEB, just not as much power. And I NEVER had a problem programming QSI and Loksound decoders on the program track with mine.
For a ‘lone wolf’ with a somewhat large layout, an ideal combo might be a Super Empire Builder plus a Zephyr, with the Zephyr set up as the command station. That gives you a DT400 throttle, dedicated programming track, full CV readback, and the extra power of the 5 amp booster. Or just getthe Super Chief to start with.
OK, fess up - how many of you with the Super Empire Builder have managed to at least once reprogram ALL your locos because you forgot to take them off the track, or had the switch that isolated your program area set the wrong way? Not gonna happen with a Zephyr or Super Chief.
Some super good information here, and I’m starting to fall off the fence on the side of going to DCC!
I’m still not fully up on the jargon and buzzwords, and have to ask… who makes the DT400 so often mentioned?
I’ve also reviewed the DCC system choices in a number of GMR yearbooks, these postings, and various layouts written about in the mags. It looks like - in no particular order - that Digitrax, NCE, and Lenz are the most popular for the folks “in the know”. Now PLEASE don’t take this as a slam against MRC and Bachmann and other manufacturers, for I certainly don’t know one from the other and am just making an observation.
By the way, I have 5 BLI Paragon w/quantum sound locos (4 steam, 1 diesel) and they obviously already have decoders.
MM, the DT400 is currently the permier throttle from Digitrax, although one could argue that its radio counterpart is a step up. It looks like a longish rectangle from directly above it, so it is a plain Jane. But, I doubt anyone has ever remarked that it doesn’t feel right. I fits naturally enough in my small hands.
The Zephyr would run your five engines just fine, unless you were making those engines tow 15-20 cars up a 3% grade, and they were all running concurrently. Even then, you’d probably just squeek under its amp rating maximum.
The new Dynamis from Bachmann does everything that its earlier counterpart, the EZ-Command didn’t/doesn’t. It also costs more than twice as much. I don’t know about computer interface for such things as JMRI’s programme already mentioned, but the Digitrax has according to what I have read…I don’t have any such designs or interest at the present.
Edit: One other thought. Search the forums here, look around and ask others about MRC decoders. I have yet to hear much good about them anywhere except in MRC advertising…so, regardless of the DCC system you choose you will want to research which decoders are best for you too, I think.
I have MRC Prodigy Advanced and soon to upgrade to wireless. As far as I know their wireless is only major brand that can be used to operate and program. What I like about MRC Prodigy is ease of learning how to use the system. I sold my Digitrax due to it not being user friendly. My Prodigy system cost less and does more including 28 functions(not that I many decoders I have use so many) and it has easy CV programming and a cool thing called yard work for throttle allowing very small throttle increments and automatically going in reverse as throttle goes from +1 to 0 to -1. Take a look at Digtrax,NCE and MRC and make your own choice as you can see many of has have different opinions.
Nope, Digitrax and NCE allow you to operate and program wirelessly.
Being user friendly is a subjective term. I find it to be user friendly…but then again, I find that the fact the MRC doesnt have a computer connection to be very UN-user friendly.
Last time I checked, the Advanced 2 system you have is in the same price bracket as it’s Digitrax and NCE competition. Digitrax DOES support 28 functions (through a computer interface or their new yet-to-be-released DT402D) as well as NCE, but again, it has been branded as a gimik and not a reason to buy a system. I challenge you to purchase a Sound equipped locomotive with 28 functions and try to memorize them…
