I don’t drive a car so I take trains frequently–We are blessed in Northern California with the ACE, Capitol Corridor, San Joaquin, Caltrain, BART; counting light rail there is MUNI Metro, VTA and cable cars, with (hopefully) light rail coming to the old Northwestern Pacific ROW in the near future!! [:D] But all of these are short or medium haul trains with bus connections. Is there a future for long haul trains? I wonder.
Passenger rail seems perfect for 100 - 500 mile trips. But beyond that it becomes problematical. The Coast Star LIght is laughingly referred to as the “Coast Star Late” because it picks up so many delays along its Seattle to Los Angeles route.
Rather than pumping money into inefficient long-haul trains that are neither fast nor cheap, Amtrak should invest more in short to medium haul trains where states and local governments are willing to chip in to cover the tab. That’s what I think. What do you think?
I beleive that in this day and time of bankrupt airlines, high gas prices and highway congestion, that long distance trains do have a place. I would advocate the solution put forward by Railway Age Magazine, ie pay the frieght railroads enough money to run passenger trains under their own banner. Under that plan, NS would operate the Cresent with their own black diesels at the point. They would have to be paid enough to keep it on time. I don’t see that happening though.
The long distance passenger train is under attack from the Bush administration. I offer David Gunn’s firing as proof of that. I hope I’m wrong but I will be very surprised if we have any long distance trains running at all by this time in, say 2007. My hope is that outfits like American Orient Express expand into other parts of the country. I would be willing to pay the premium fare to ride their train and watch the country pass by the window like it only can on a train.
Yep. They are called tour trains, and as such time is of no predominence.
As for the bigger question, think about it. We’ve had over three decades of Amtrak, the idea of passenger trains being viable over shorter to medium distances has taken on the most logical consensus, and yet Amtrak still runs LD trains.
Why has Amtrak still not reorganized into a network of short/medium haul corridors interworked into cross country connectivity? Despite the admittedly valid critizisms of the Bush Administration regarding passenger rail, at least they seem to understand this logical evolution of the passenger train idea. David Gunn may have acted as an impediment to this evolution of the passenger train ideal (after all, he was opposed to the corporate separation of the NEC from the LD’s), and that’s why he’s gone.
And frankly, good riddance.
Whether this Administration can find someone to take the bull by the horns and reorganize Amtrak into an interconnected regional network remains to be seen.
They have a future but it seems to as an entry in future train books. Maybe a museum to go see what people used to ride. They no longer have much economic viability. Good riddance may be a little harsh as many people will miss them [:(] ENJOY
One of the reason Amtrak still runs long distance is that for several years it will cost more money to pay for the discontinuance costs than to continue operation. One other reasons is that members of the US Congress are not willing to dump Federal money into regional operations such as the NEC, unless there is something for their own constituancy.
The Bush Administration has no interest in doing anything for rail passenger service service, long distance,short distance or any distance. The only thing they want to accomplish is to eliminate any FEDERAL expenditure for rail service, so they can continue to provide massive tax benefits for the extremely wealthy, or pay for useless military hardware. They say that the individual states should pick up any cost for the development and operation of regional services, in spite of the fact that they know full well that the states do not have the resources to do this.
In spite of what is stated by futuremodal, Dave Gunn was an advocate for development of regional operations. That was part of every 5 year develpment plan that he presented to Congress and the administration. So why did Gunn oppose the splitting off of the NEC from the rest? Because that does nothing more than to play into the administration plan to split infrastructure ownership an maintenance off from operations. Why is such a split a dumb idea? Look at the results gotten by that system for all the rest of Amtrak, where that is the exact structure.
Future of long distance trains? The"train off" notices will come shortly after the 2006 congressional elections. Within two years of that, all Federal support for trains will go away. After that fragmented regional operations will become a political football among states, funding will dry up and the choices will be, drive a car, fly a plane or walk.
There is no real future for 1940’s style passenger service (AMTRAK provides service that at BEST rivals some that was provided in the 1940’s - at worst AMTRAKS service barely better than no service at all)
There is a future for 21st Century, high speed passenger service East of the Mississippi, as the Interstate System become more of a gridlock operation and the Air Traffic Control system operated over it’s designed capacity (as it was prior to 9/11 and as it is now approaching again). There is the need for additional fast, reliable passenger transportation between major city pairs. AMTRAK, as it is today, is not the answer.
If Amtrak is reorganized into a regional passenger rail oversight agency, there is no discontinuation per se, more likely description is a transfer of assets to new routes, under more regional auspices rather than federal auspices, and with privatization a real possibility with Amtrak being able to transfer access rights to those private entities.
As for “members of the US Congress are not willing to dump Federal money into regional operations such as the NEC, unless there is something for their own constituancy”, isn’t that what the whole LD debate is about? Congress seems perfectly willing to dump Federal money into those anachronisms represented by the long distance trains, so why wouldn’t they be just as willing to dump that same money into a more modernized system of regionally interconnected medium distance trains?
A correction is needed here. It isn’t that they want “to eliminate any FEDERAL expenditure for rail service” as jeaton misstates, it’s t
By what your meaning as long-haul.
You would need a big locomotive to pull a long train.
But without Metra, Long Island RR, Caltrain, and others,
we would be driving our cars all the time and polluting the earth.
Same with buses. I went to NYC a long time ago and the black smoke coming out of those buses don’t look healthy.
Without trains, cars would rule the world!
As for Amtrak, lots of people hate it.
That’s why in lots of movies you hear that phrase, “we should have taken the train.”
Trains [tup]
Cars [tdn]
Planes [tup]
Walking [tup][tdn]
Nuf Said
[:)][8D][:D][^][B)][xx(][:O][|)][:P][;)][alien][X-)][bow][%-)][(-D][swg][:-^][{(-_-)}]
Well…
Before sharing my thoughts, I agree with the statements put forth by futuremodal Dave. Not so much as a rebuttal, but moreso in the rationale he uses.
I see a future for long distance passenger trains in the U.S., but with some high expectations for that service.
Congress needs to get off their collective “butts” and get moving on a viable transportation plan for the 21st century. Sorry, all of you “bashers” of our President, it simply is not his fault nor of his making that Amtrak has found itself in its present day state. After all, are you saying that Amtrak was healthy prior to his taking office? Really? Ha!
All one really needs to do is take an objective review of the history of Amtrak, remove political and personal biases, and perhaps one will actually come away with facts rather than anecdotal fiction.
The blame goes to Congress, that body of representation who our voting age citizenry puts into office. Congress is a reactionary group - meaning, the squeeky wheel gets the grease. And oh have they reacted well to the airlines, trucking industry and barge lines. Take a look at the facts regarding federal subsidies going out to just these three elements - I haven’t even gotten into highways, runways and locks and dams. It is staggering. (Oh, you want me to provide the data [?] Nope, you do the work and perhaps you will learn as you go.)
21st century rail transportation is not steel wheels on steel track. It is leading edge technology - something akin to MAGLEV, but not necessarily restricted to just that idea (which by the way was invented in the U.S. back in the 70s!). Congress needs to understand up front and personal that moving people and things from point A to point Z in a rapid, reliable and secure mode can only enhance our position as a nation, not thwart it.
These threads are full of Amtrak this, and Amtrak that - just conduct an “advanced search” on it, for this Fo
I’m sure everyone has their fair share of Amtrak horror stories. I remember when the Coast Starlight derailed in Newark, CA late one evening. Amtrak bussed the passengers to Sacramento, CA to the depot and left them there until the next morning. When I got off the Capitol, they were all huddled in blankets like war refugees, with the Red Cross handing out donuts and coffee! [] I understand that Amtrak turned around a southbound Starlight at Sacramento so the passengers could continue their journey. What happened to the southbound passengers I don’t know.
Another time, I was at the Sacramento station and there was a railfan and his wife who was just starting their rail vacation. He had his videocam all ready to capture the California Zephyr when I told him the Zephyr had left about 30 minutes before. He looked at me like I was crazy. The ticket said 3:15 PM. Later, I saw him talking to the ticket agent. Turns out the schedule had changed since he bought his tickets, and the tickets were printed with the wrong time! Amtrak put him in a cab to pick up the train in Reno. So much for seeing all that beautiful Sierra scenery from the observation car.
I don’t mean to turn this into an Amtrak bashing thread, but this is not the way to run a passenger railroad. siberanmo and futuremodel have some good ideas. One problem with Amtrak is that powerful congressmen have far too much influence on locating trains. Everyone in Congress likes to bash Amtrak but they all want a station in their district. I think futuremodel has a very good suggestion for a rational approach to passenger rail in the United States. We need to get beyond the right/left divide if we are going to solve this conundrum.
I don’t know if any of us are really trying to bash Amtrak. In my mind, the best way to mess things up is to let the political leaders get involved.
The freight roads where more than happy to get out of the passenger traffic arena. Passenger service, at least in this country, have been a money loser. For this reason I don’t think they would want to get back into it.
The local governments (i.e. Metrolink here in the Los Angeles area) is limited to a regional area. While it’s a good regional system, it doesn’t do much for the long haul traffic.
Something like Amtrak is needed, but I’m not sure what the best answer is.
I live in the Louisville, Kentucky area. We are supposedly the fifteenth largest metropolitan area in the country. We have ZERO passenger trains. The one we did have went away as no one cared to slowly ride it up to Indianapolis to connect with the Cardinal for the ride to Chicago.
In truth folks, It may be time to step out of the box and talk about a real new direction. With all consideration to siberianmo who is hinting about it with MAGLEV. The Freight Railroads themselves are in a business of moving goods and materials in a commercial way. For us to see a real advance in suface transportation like our beloved passenger trains we are talking about someting that probably is still in the mind of the one who will invent it.
Personally I think some of the long distance trains are dead men walking right now…and am getting pictures that I havent taken in the past to have them in the future.
I wonder how many of the naysayers on long distance passenger trains have actually ridden one recently?
My impression is that those who ride are impressed by the demand of their fellow passengers. Again, a civilized and strong USA requires good long distance passenger service for
Elderly and handicapped who cannot access the country with out it
Backup in cases of emergencies
3/ Promoted tourism for people who want to see the country
And again, because of LAND USE. private auto transportation is the most subsidized form of grouind transportation, not the least.
The best answer for this I can find comes from noted conservative Paul Weyrich:
“The future of Amtrak looks bleak. Without reform, Congress would be pouring money into a lost cause. Congress wants a rail system. Amtrak has strong support in Congress. But Congress is not willing to approve enough money to make the transit system work. We need a system of high speed corridors, such as those recommended years ago by the Department of Transportation. We need those corridors to be interconnected so longer trips could be taken within the system. That would relieve the airlines of unprofitable routes and permit the railroads to do what they do best, serving corridors from 300 to 500 miles. The success of the Acela trains between Washington and Boston prove that point.”
The current LD trains are a political necessity that keeps the Congressional support strong, so I doubt they’ll be going away en-masse anytime soon.
] I understand that Amtrak turned around a southbound Starlight at Sacramento so the passengers could continue their journey. What happened to the southbound passengers I don’t know.