Is this hobby becoming too expensive?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
41

I have also seen 110% models over the years…

However,those are not the type I am talking about.

I have seen topics where one guy claim the this or that is 2" to narrow…I cancelled my 10 units because yada,yada,yada…The engineers seat is to wide,to narrow,the door latch is a 1" to long and yada,yada etc yet,these jay hawkers never post a picture of their stuff but,will be among the first to trash a new model over minor detail problems.

Savvy mate?

BTW…I would be happy if I could model as good as I did 2 lustrums ago.

42

No doubt you have, but in Brakie’s world, if it isn’t being done at one of the clubs he belongs to, it doesn’t exist. And if those 110% modellers are interested in accuracy and quality, then they’re not having fun!!! [}:)]

Mark.

(Striving to be a 100%er…)

43

Good Morning!

Being in the hobby for quite some time (lionel since 1956 and HO since 1959) may I offer my perspective on “the high cost of HO - then and now”…

When I started HO in 1959, I could barely afford an Athearn F and GP units, and a handful of their kits, and brass sectional track. I was in high school, so money was not all that available. I didn’t pay much attention to the more expensive stuff as I couldn’t afford it. Today’s teenager is probably in the same boat, but I suspect better off than I was.

In the 1970s I had a house and wife and 4 young children and Athearn was still the best I could really afford. I did manage a couple of Rivarossi steam locos, and were they special. I do recall that the $2-$3 Athearn kits were some very nice affordable Christmas and birthday.

In the 1980s, I had upgraded the house but had the same wife and 4 teenagers. Money continued to be tight for model railroading, but I could afford some Ulrich/Silver Streak kits and some of the better Rivarossi and Atlas locos. But the mainstream was still Athearn and MDC!

In the 1990s, I “lost” the wife, and the kids went out on their own. So all of a sudden there was money for the railroad, as well as a large room. Atlas and Athearn and Rivarossi ruled, but the car kit selection was much more. But the money and time was spent on the layout.

In the 2000s, I have a new wife, and money is available for model railroading. Locos are now Stewart, Proto 2k, Atlas, Bachmann Spectrum, and BLI. Cars are mostly mid-level stuff, including Proto, Intermountain, Walthers, Accurail, and of course MDC and Athearn.

What I am trying to say is that:

  • We need to focus on our increased earnings over time, as well as the cost of the product.

  • As with automobiles, there is a much better product out there today.

44

Yeah,but,the world I am in is real and not a cyber world of fantasy.

45

All true, but with decided caveats.

  1. Very few of us here were fully grown adults, out in the workaday world, in the 1950’s or 60’s. Without that perspective, no fair comparison can be made addressing the original question. One must compare the average adult’s financial situation and purchasing power for each era.

  2. Why are so many so naive as to NOT EXPECT any given product to improve enormously with the passage of 40-50 years! Of course our models are better today. Do you honestly think 1970’s Tyco-quality trains would sell to today’s hobbyists?

Most items in the marketplace, after experiencing an initial spurt of high pricing reflecting a major advance in technology, soon drop back to the range of their former pricing. Research any product you’d like and you’ll see this over and over. On the other hand, many of the major items in model railroading have been steadily escalating in price now at far beyond what inflation implies for about 15 years and this pace has been accelerating with time.

  1. As to product availability, the claim of today’s great diversity of available products is more myth than substan
46

Yeah, and how many different companies version of an F unit do we need?

47

Excellent point. Yes we do have a lot of new companies offering a lot of new products but looking at that 1982 catalog, a lot of those companies have disappeared or been absorbed. A lot of the products are no produced by anyone. Sure, most have been replaced by better stuff, but there were a number of very fine structure kits no longer available from anyone. The size of the Walthers catalog has remained fairly consistent over the years. The market can only support so much product.

48

Meaning what?

49

[#ditto]

-dj-l-ectric

I’ve been in the Air Force now for almost 12 years; through it I’ve earned my Master’s and am almost done with my PhD (on their dime). And yes, I’ve had to go to war (with the Army, actually), and yes, I was part of the system which resulted in killing people and breaking their stuff. I’m proud of my service. I don’t ask for thanks, but I do ask for a bit of understanding that sometimes killing bad people is what it takes to protect what we love, even if that thing we are protecting is another American in uniform.

You have a right to disagree; you have a right to be self-righteous. Let me leave you with a quote:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. "
**[John Stuart Mill](http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/John_Stuart_Mill/)** *English economist & philosopher (1806 - 1873)*

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion of the cost of model railroading…

50

If this is completely true, then why was at least 50% of the booths and audience at the last WGH show I attended Thomas the Tank trains and youngsters under 12 clammoring for Thomas-related items? The show included a low-cost train ride on a train pulled by a Thomas-like loco – and there was a constant line of parents and kids wanting a ride.

Sure it’s not the Lionel or proto-based train sets of the 1950s and 60s, but hey, it’s trains and it seems to be quite popular at WGH train shows I’ve attended. If they’re catering primarily to the 45-64 crowd, they’ve picked the wrong thing to emphasize! If these kids are not considered potential hobbyists by the WGH show powers-that-be, then why the huge emphasis on Thomas?

As to high prices of hobby products, higher prices reflect higher demand for goods, otherwise companies that outprice the market will go out of business. If what you’re suggesting is true, then at some point the prices will begin dropping because the demand will drop.

It’s all just economics – hobby manufacturers seem to have discovered the sweet spot between price and demand. If you do a limited run of an item, you can charge more, keep your expenses to a known fixed amount, and ultimately make a better profit.

If that’s what it takes to keep the manufacturers happy and producing new stuff, then it works for me. Sure I’d love to see it cost less, but some product is better

51

Well said.

Paul

52

Let me tell you… today I went to the LHS and I wanted to know the price of a box of 83’ flex track 100 pieces… almost 500$ I know it’s 4$ a piece but it’s just a shocker to hear that! Unfortunatly Ill prolly end up paying it too… cause i need to lay track. BOY I WISH I WAS RICH!! I love this hobby but it’s killing my wallet!

53

Well, break it down across several months and you will have your 500 dollars worth of track.

54

All this stuff is always a matter or priorities and perspective…

I’m not on this planet to judge anyone, but I have used this example many times:

In almost the same breath, I had a customer explain to me that he could not afford today’s locomotives such as the Athearn RTR that is in the 65 - 75.00 range.

Then he complained about “having” to spend 80 bucks at Outback last night. For one meal.

My wife and I don’t spend 80.00 a week on groceries.

Priorities and perspective.

55

Did you ever stop to think that this is why there are no hobby shops stocked to meet your expectations?

56

David P. Morgan once wrote a story about “The Mohawk That Refused To Abdicate”. I’m seriously considering writing a story entitled:

The Dead Horse That People Refuse To Stop Flogging

Just for the sake of peace and quiet, I will stipulate to the following even though I think each of the following statements is a crock. I will do so if (and only if) everyone else takes and adheres to the pledge to cease commenting on said allegations.

  1. The hobby is dying. It’s been dying since at least 1960, perhaps even earlier.

  2. The hobby is way overpriced and the fat cat manufacturers are gouging us into abject poverty.

  3. Model Railroader was a much better magazine way back when (way back when is unspecified, it’s just some non-specific golden age in the past).

Andre

57

Ok, now we are just manipulating numbers. If you are going to take the top 20% off then you need to take the bottom 20% off too. While you are at it, take the top 20% off when looking at the tax burden and who pays it. Then you’ll get a real shock.

I saw someone else talking about exchange rates. I believe most would agree that the majority of goods we buy for model railroading are from China. The Chinese Yuan has been pegged to the US dollar for years, meaning that the Chinese people had no more buying power in the US, even as their economy strengethened. This cost American businesses and the stock market consumers and income. Only recently (since the middle of 2005) has the Chinese government allowed the Yuan to float more against the dollar. So don’t blame exchange rates for any perceived increase in costs.

http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=CNY&amt=1&t=5y

Now before someone else gets excited over the chart, that ugly looking drop is only 11%. We’d actually prefer it be more but the Chinese government is allowing the Yuan to float up slowly against the dollar to avoid high inflation on their part and a currency collapse on our part.

Now back to the trains.

58

Hear Hear!

Another tidbit is workday coffee. That Starbucks is 3 bucks and one thermos from the home coffee pot works out to about 60 sents plus electricity to brew it yourself. But boy that Stanley Thermos is very expensive =)

59

If you are going to post an opinion, it is best to say so or show some facts. Here’s some data from the BLS website: http://www.bls.gov/

Weekly and hourly earnings data from the Current Population Survey



<br>**Series Id: **LEU0252881500<br>Not Seasonally Adjusted<br>**Series title: **(unadj)- Median usual weekly earnings (second quartile), Employed full time,<br> Wage and salary workers<br>**Percent/rates: **N/A<br>**Earnings: **Median usual weekly earnings - in current dollars (second quartile)<br>**Industry: **All Industri<br>
60

I notice that there isn’t much reference to what scale is being discussed. Well, go to EBAY and check out the N scale stuff, one would think that being half the size of HO it would be cheaper, yes? Well guess what!? it’s about TWICE as much, the prices for used locos and rolling stock are super high…why? well I’d venture a guess that it’s because N scale is a much less popular scale than HO so there’s a lot less of it lying around, and the mere fact that it’s so small means it’s harder to manufacture.

However, there are bidding wars on almost every lot and parts auction that comes up in N scale. People want that stuff and they will pay for it. So in answer to the question, No I don’t think this hobby is too expensive, it just depends on what you want. If you want fancy sound locos with working lights and engineers that wave and rolling stock with individually applied rivets, be ready to break out the bucks, if you want to run trains and have fun, there’s still a multitude of deals out there. Being a savvy smart shopper will make your hard earned greenbacks go much farther.