After reading Ulrich’s post about “Inflation Strikes the Hobby” it inspired me ask the question that has been on my mind for quite awhile now.
“Isn’t it about time the big companies in this country started bringing production back to the U.S.A. ???”
We used to call them “manufacturers” but now all they are are “importers”. They have an office and a warehouse and they’re in business!
For years and years the biggest problem was setting up the tooling, having the “dies” made as it took a machinest and it was very expensive. Now though with the computer controlled milling machines it truly is a “plug and play” situation.
I look at things like the Atlas Trainman series and see no reason why it couldn’t be made here. God knows we have the unemployed workforce to assemble them, so what’s the hold up??? Some will say “You won’t have the details we’ve come to expect”, to that I say take a look at the Kadee freight cars, they’re made here and are now selling cheaper than some of the Chinese stuff!!
The other arguement will be “but it will drive the prices up and I can’t afford that” and to that I reply “is your hobby more important than supporting the place where you live”?
I have no problem with imports but does it “all” have to come from China? Seems to me that out of our major suppliers at least one of them would want to label their boxes “Proudly made in America”! This includes Atlas, Intermountain, Walthers, and Athearn, they all four “used” to produce their products here, now they’re just another importer…
As corporations, the company’s sole legal motive is to make profit for the stockholder. Many of their charters say exactly that. If they make one cent more in profit (though I’m guessing it’s higher) by outsourcing all of our jobs overseas, they must do it. Otherwise, executives can be sued and the boards can be broken up. Even if management wanted to do it, Wall Street demands otherwise. If they were set up differently, there would at least be the possibility of actions that would benefit more of us than just the stockholders, but as it stands now, that’s a no-go in most cases.
I am quite certain production costs would rise, and prices commensurately, if model train production were to be repatriated. There has to be some way of protecting profits, and a profit margin for subsequent project capitalization. Standing up product lines like ours would be very costly. Wages would be higher in real dollar terms, and so would the tooling. If people wouldn’t mind adding about $20 or more to a Bachmann 2-8-0’s usually discounted price, I guess it would fly, though.
there is a very specific reason why there are few manufacturing jobs left here in the US, its the unrelenting drive for profit above any other considerations that will leave this country a third world nation with no internal ability to produce its own goods, its not that nobody wants the jobs, its that major corporations are now international and have zero loyalty to any one nation, so they would rather pay some poor schlub in China a dollar an hour instead of paying Joe Sixpack $10 an hour to do it here at home, and that poor schlub in China is finding out now that if he asks for $2 an hour the corporations will send their orders to Vietnam for somewhere else where some poor schlub gets payed $1 a day. And we all support this behavior by shopping at places like Wallmart and demanding ever more cheaper (in every way) products.
You think its bad now? What happens when most of those jobs in China are replaced by automation, thats been a prime reason for the lack of job recovery in this recession here, jobsa are being replaced by automation combined with outsourcing overseas, soon in a couple decades there may not be ANY jobs of this sort anywhere, what then, how do we all work at Wallmart?
Most MR firms are in private hands so the argement about shareholders is a moot point. Second, the problem with outsourcing is that in many areas here in North America the labour costs are such that many companies are not in the position to ‘afford’ the costs.
I really do wonder about the actual size of the market anymore when you have large lists of product being pre-ordered as well.
Before there is a rush to bring jobs back here we need to see those jobs land in—Africa. If the reason for the jobs not being here is only because of shareholders[:-^]
I dunno, the small fishing tackle containers I use to hold small parts - I get them at WalMart. Yeah, that bastion of “apparantly everything sold here is of cheap Chinese manufacture”. I happened to notice while peeling the label off a new one the other night that it is MADE IN THE USA. Hmmm.
I would go as far as to say the Chinese workers are delighted to get. I don’t believe the $10/hour vs $2/hour someone else mentioned is a right ratio either. As I recall way back when it used to be $0.02 per hour. I think it is now more like $2 for a 12 hour day, or maybe $2 for a 7 day week. Anyone have a good current labor number for China? All my offshore workers are in India and they have had some amazing wage inflation over the past 10 years.
BUT that is not the reason for my post. There is another very big reason and expense of manufacturing in the USA. There are toxic elements involved with almost every sort of manufacturing process (even more in California). In the USA there are fairly strick rules on what can be dumped down the drain, released into the air, and even thrown in the trash. There is a substantial savings for not having to build and operate all of those waste management features.
Well said, and unless there is a Walmart on every street corner of every city, there still won’t be enough jobs. Having lived in America since birth, 74 years ago, I have reached the point of having a helpless feeling for our country. But, the good news for me is I probably won’t live that many more years, less if the Federal government keeps cutting benefits for seniors and those approaching seniors.
It is a very basic economic principal. Whatever you charge more for you will get less demand for and what you charge less for, you will get more demand for. The simple fact is that to a large extent, American factory workers have priced themselves out of the market. If manufacturers try to pass the higher cost of labor on to their consumers, they will sell less product which will reduce profit. American workers sharply decreased demand for their services by charging more than companies could pay and still remain profitable. Foreign workers increased demand for their services by charging less than their American counterparts.
As for me, I shop where I get the most bang for my buck. That is true of everything I buy, not just hobby purchases. And yes, that means I frequently shop at Walmart because they have a business model which maximizes my purchasing power.
Be prepared for a shock, Texas. The minimum wage in many Chinese factories today is upwards of $150 a month and in some instances average monthly wages are in the order of $200 to $300! How do you think all the Chinese are affording new cars and other high-end consumer goods these days? The era of the Chinese working for pennies a day are long, long, past.
Fairly common - all the design know-how and the best toolmakers are still in the US. But for the repetitive assembly line jobs, the wages and benefits of Chinese workers is so much lower it wouldn’t be possible to make it here and sell at a price people are willing to pay. WHat’s really bad is when all the high tech design and engineering jobs move overseas as well.
Nope, because there’s nowhere to make them here. I posted the same in Ulrich’s thread, but Rapdio looked at moving back to Canada. The result: There weren;t any places that could do what they needed. Molding, tampo, paint, etc., all of that would have to be built and bought. The Startup costs were insane. Now, a larger company like Horizon might be able to swing those costs, but smaller companies cannot.
It’s not the production line costs that are so much cheaper; it’s the die cutting and set up that is so expensive in North America (and Europe). Steel dies are very expensive to make - and are needed for quality, medium scale production of models in plastic or Zamac. Cheaper aluminum dies have been tried, and don’t last. From my understanding, cutting new dies for a new model locomotive in the US costs $450K vs $150K in China. If you can find somebody to do it, and do it well. That’s $60 per locomotive difference (in manufacturing cost, not retail) for a run of 5,000.
And by the way, die cutting has to be paid for before a single product from the die is sold. Which means you raise and commit that kind of money not knowing whether you have a best seller or a brick on your hands. If you can’t sell 5,000 units, the cost difference escalates.
Talk is cheap. I suggest all the folks who believe they can do it better and/or cheaper pool their money together and produce their hearts’ desires. Sell the excess production for a fair price, and you will be on your way. That’s exactly how most model railroad manufacturing/importing companies got and get started.