This may be a clue. I ran my last layout with my Zephyr as the command station and a DB150 powering the track. I had everything hooked to an X10 appliance module (so I didn;t ahve to crawl under the layotu to turn on a power strip) so that everythign turned on at the same time. Sometimes, I got some odd beeps from the DB150, other times it just all turned on. Either way, I never had any issues, just the beeps on startup. WHat I think was happening is that the two units weren’t powering up at the same time - to humans they were, but milliseconds are milliseconds and 5 milliseconds to the little microcontrollers inside the command station and booster is like a lifetime. SO sometimes, the Zephyr would win, and the Loconet would be up before the bosoter accessed it - no beeps. other times, the booster started first and beeped because it was running as a booster and there was no command station on the network. As a test I tried turning off the DB150’s power supply so that when I hit the X10 button only the Zephyr powered up. Then I turned on the DB150. No beeps.
Problem is, there’s no real way to kee the UR92 from powering up until the DCS100 stabilizes - if you pull the PS14, the UR92 will try to run from power over the Loconet cable (and may work - if there is nothing else plugged in and the cable between the two isn’t too long - but do not operate this way, the UR92 (and UR91) really need the external power to work properly). It may very well be a similar race condition (this is what it’s called in circuit design - when two parts of the circuit ‘race’ each other for an action to occur and the design allows for either one to happen firts) where if the UR92 ‘wins’ it is a little flakey at first ebcause it doesn;t see the Loconet, bt if the DCS100 ‘wins’, the UR92 starts normally.
You can test this by unplugging both the Loconet cable and the PS14 and then turning on the DCS100 and only after it is on for a few seconds, plug in the Loconet
Randy, I think you might be onto something regarding power on sequencing. I’ve been beginning to suspect that certain components like the DCS100 need some time (seconds?) to boot up and get “working” first, in particular before I re-insert the battery in the DT402 throttle. Since everything worked fine 4 times today (I’ve started keeping detailed notes of my procedures), and each time today I powered up the throttle last, so far, no issues.
A possible fix might be to use a power sequencer such as the Furman M-8S. Kind of pricey for this application, but maybe there’s something less expensive.
My audio system (as well as others that may have a number of high current/high output amplfiers) usually have to power some components on/off sequentially that draw a lot of current at turn on or have a lot of back EMF when turned off. Obviously, with DCC this is not a current draw/load issue, but more like a time required to boot up issue before the “next” component can reliably “read” information/data from the first component, and so on.
Re-read (or read for the first time) what I posted a few replies above.
Just about all of these devices contain processors of some sort that have to initialize. Powering them up in an order that makes sense allows those initializations to take place serially. That basically prevents a jumble of devices in unknown states from all trying to talk on the LocoNet at the same time, or not be able to listen when they should.
Last night I started up the system as I had 6+ times earlier in the day ~ turn on power to the DCS100/UR92, wait 30 seconds, put the battery in the DT402D throttle. Turn on Track Power. Everything ran fine………………….for about 20 minutes. Then I was going to bring one of the two trains into the depot (passenger pulled by Broadway Limited Paragon E6 A&B both powered, run well together, so I have both set to the same address for now). The result?..
Runaway Train. I have sound including control of horn and bell. NO SPEED CONTROL!!!
The other train continues to operate properly (3 Broadway Limited Blueline, with brand new Digitrax DN146 decoders, all using their default address of 3 for now).
I turned off power to the whole system, pulled the battery from the throttle and decided to give this a rest before I throw the locos against the wall and start cutting up the layout.
This morning I powered everything up the same way. Now, both trains are not responsive except for lights being on. I go through the Loco select process for the Paragon train. No change. Try it again, and again. No change. No speed or sound. I select the R throttle for the Blueline train. Go through the Loco select process. This train becomes active, sound comes on, starts moving. Stop train, select the L throttle for the Paragon train, press Loco, set the address, press enter, NOTHING AGAIN.
This is some seriously bad ****.
I really enjoy the ability to walk around the layout with throttle in hand not tethered to anything, the sounds and the (when it’s working) flexibility. But this has now become a very time consuming exercise in frustration. It is exactly why I did not want to make a giant leap of faith and just jump wholeheartedly into DCC and leave DC behind.
There is something else going on here if you could control the lights and sounds - that means the throttle was talking to the UR92 and thus to the DCS100 and out to the locos, even if you had no speed control. If here was a communciations failure, NOTHING would have worked. If the function buttons were registering, the throttle was in communications. No control over the speed could be a fault of the throttle - the knob not working, the command station - corrupt memory or similar, or the loco itself just not responding to speed packets.
Your loco stopping is likely related to you seeing steal messages - it’s probably selected on both throttle knobs, and one is set to stop and the other you are trying to control it with. Ths will result in the loco quite regularly responding to the stop, then all by itself resuming speed at the speed commanded on the other throttle. Over and over again.
I’m not seeing any Steal messages right now. And this particular loco (Paragon A unit) was doing the stopping thing running DC. It started doing that about 6 months after I got it. Hence back to the dealer it went for inspection/testing. Dealer couldn’t find anything wrong on their short test track so it was decided to reset it to factory default. That seems to have worked - while I was still using DC. Now the same issue (and more) seems to have cropped up.
How do I check if the Paragon loco is on both throttles and how do I get rid of it from the second throttle?
I dispatched the address 14 loco (Paragon2 E6B unit) from both L & R throttles.
Pressed Loco, set the L throttle to address 14, press Enter. Press Fn 6 (to start sound), sound works, still no throttle response.
I also tried analog loco and that worked. I then tried an Athearn Genesis DCC on default address 3. That worked.
I then tried another Broadway Limited Paragon2, a T1, on default address 3. That worked.
Went back to the Paragon2 B unit. Same thing. I could get the sounds to work but no throttle.
What the **** is going on?
NOTE: apparently (some?) Paragon2 locos require function button 6 to be pressed to start the sound. I haven’t had to do this when I first got DCC a few weeks ago. Now it’s hit or miss. Regardless, there seem to be multiple issues here, and I no longer believe that my newbie DCC status is part of the problem. How can anyone “learn” anything when the results are not consistent?
IMO this stuff is poorly designed and overly complex. Case in point: A simple thing like turning on track power. 1) Press Pwr. 2) Press Y+ 3) sometimes Track Power Indicator is still blinking even though track power is obviously on because the loco & car lights are on. 4) Press Y+ AGAIN. Track Power Indicator stops blinking. 5) Press Pwr to exit. All that just to turn track power on? Give me a break!!!
With analog DC, 1) turn on power switch. 2) turn throttle, train moves. press horn button, horn blows. Works every time, THE SAME WAY
You can use option switch 36 per the Digitrax instructions to clear all slots. This gives you a “clean slate” and assures you don’t have conflicting addresses:
The problem is that link shows different proceedure from what the manual says and even omits a few things. And that is one of my complaints. The documentation is inconsistent, page numbers are wrong, often off by several pages in either direction, one thing keeps refering you to another, etc.
You can configure the system to always turn on the track power when it turns on, but I really don’t recommend that, if a loco see the power come up and decides to not see the DCC signal immediately, it can take off uncontrolled as it reverts to DC operation mode. I must say, I’ve NEVER had the blinking power icon. But I’ve always been working from a tethered throttle.
It’s all a computer - inconsistent operation is usualyl a sign of soemthign else being wrong. I don;t have any Paragon 2 locos, but the older BLI locos with QSI use F6 to shut things down with multiple levels of shutdown requiring multiple presses of F6. One of which is the motor is disconnected from the decoder - so you can throttle up all you want and it won’t move. There have been many posts here over the years, fewer now since no one OEMs QSI, and all because they had their loco in shutdown mode.
If the Paragon 2 locos sometimes need F6 and other times don’t - somethign is turning it off. I go back to one of my furst suggestions - it’s entirely possibel the coin cell battery in the DCS100 is dead - this is what retains the settings whenthe power is off. If this dies, the system effectively reverts to factory defaults on power up. If it’s marginal - it could corrupt the memory and cause all sorts of strange issues. You really should not just turn things off and walk away - get in the habit of properly dispatching locos and don;t leave one selected. There is nothign in the throttle to fully retain what loco was selected once power is removed from it, eithe rby unplugging or taking out the battery. The last selected loco number is usually retained but it is NOT selected as a runnign loco. Any F keys past F8 are not even stored int he command station - the throttle handles F9 and up, with Digitrax. That’s why there was no command station upgrade needed when they went to 29 functions - it’s a throttle function. Properly dispatching locos before shutting the
The Command Station OpSw 36 has been reset. Same result.
I reset both Paragon locos to factory default, tested individually, sound & throttle worked.
Then I changed the address back 14 on each and tested each individually & together. Sound and throttle work.
Observation: when testing both locos together (uncoupled, a foot apart), when I pressed reverse direction, on one occassion the A unit reversed but the B unit didn’t. Pressing reverse a couple times got them both running in the same direction again. Not sure if this has anything to do with anything - seems like a radio communications issue - “just sayin’”
FWIW, after a lengthy conversation with Broadway Limited customer service they mentioned resetting OpSw39. They also agreed to send 2 new decoders. I asked them to wait until I test this again, and reset OpSw39 as a last resort.
Randy, I guess that’s one of the things I don’t like ~ having to dispatch locos before turning off power. I’m the only user. There are 2 trains (3 at most) (right now) each running on their own mainline. There’s way too much sequence proceedural stuff required. To me, this is like going back to my Apple II (circa 1980). It’s 2016. Hell, even the new 4K “smart” TV figures stuff out on its own with push of ONE button.
So, now that I’ve got everything working again after OpSw36 reset, resetting the locos in question back to factory default, and resetting the address back to what I want, who wants to bet how long this will last? [:P]
Running 2 locos on the track and one misses the direction change command even though the both have the same address is a decoder issue, more than likely. It’s POSSIBLE there is a track wiring issue, but pretty much zero chance of that being a system problem. If the system was failing to send the DCC command, neither loco would reverse.
DO you have any other decodered locos? How do they perform? I’m beginning to be even happier I never spent the money to get another Reading T1 when they released the Paragon 2 version. My two older ones with ESU decoders run great.
If you don’t want to dispatch locos when finished, just be prepared to get occasional STEAL message then. And if you fat finger the wrong address too many times, you will fill up the slots.
Should I tell you now that after an OpSw 39 reset, the system defaults to only 22 slots, not 120? There are some other settings under the OpSw settings for the DCS100 that might be useful to change from the defaults as well.
Speaking of computers - get yourself a Locobuffer USB or a PR3 and two pieces of free software - JMRI and Loconet Checker (if you have Windows - Loconet Checker is Windows only. JMRI runs on everything). Both will let you monitor the command station slots so you can see active locos, and you can also set those OpSw values.
There is also a document on the Digitrax Yahoo group that explains how the whole slot thing works - it should make it clearer why you should dispatch when finished running a given loco.
The Tech Support Dept link Ed posted - looks like the same procedure of OpSw 36/39 resets to me. How old is you edition of the manual? Check the version on the Digitrax web site, some of the errors were fixed after a bunch of people brought it up and the downloadable version may be newer than what came in your box.
Well, just gave it a test run. Everything was left on except for pulling the throttle battery. Turned track power back on, reinserted throttle battery, press Loco, select loco, press 6 (engine sound ramp up), sound comes on, horn & bell work, throttle her up.
The train gets no more than 1/4 around the layout, brake sound comes on by its own, train slown down almost to a stop on its own and then resumes speed. Speed control lost again. Bell & horn still work. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR [W] [:(!]
This now seems to be happening with increasing frequency.
Just for the record, the layout was recently rebuilt. All new track & turnouts. Track & wheels were just cleaned, especially the track (ACT 2002). All new & upgraded wiring, 10awg stranded/twisted bus, 18 awg feeders, every track section joint soldered, minimum 5 pair/block (10 awg equivalent), all track joints soldered. Feeders to bus soldered. Digital level used for grade. Level track is flat within .005". It’s all top notch. I didn’t spare any expense or time in the rebuild.