It's been a long time coming...

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

First of all, hello everyone - I’m new to the forum and the hobby. My wife bought me an HO train set for Christmas after hearing me talk for years about “one day” starting a model railroad like I had when I was a kid.

I have just finished temporarily placing my track (combination of flexi-track and Atlas sectional) into my planned layout form, and I noticed that when I added some 9" sections to the curves on the layout I chose it results in a strange appearance while the train runs around the track. I should have expected that, but somehow it caught me off guard (I was just happy it all ran first time). Is this (putting long curves then straight section then long curves) a universal no no?

In addition, while I have a diesel engine that came with the boxed set I do plan on picking up a steam locomotive at some point soon. I read somewhere that 18" curves are not ideal for steam and that 22 or 24" curves are more prototypical. Unfortunately, I have a lot of 18" track from the box set and another track set I picked up… any opinions on the matter?

Thanks in advance, this has been a heckuva lot of fun so far. I’ve been a wargamer for so long I forgot how cool it could be just watching a train go around an oval track.

2

smaller steam like 2-8-2, 2-6-6-2 will be okay, but the big steam wont be as good.

For your stuttering curve/straight/curve, why not pick up some 22" radius, that may help the oddball look and get you wider radius if you have the room. You can buy snap track now in a variety of radii now.

been down the gamer path here too, but a long time model railroader.

Just wait till you get DCC and sound going…you’ll never go back…to OZ…

3

Hello. It may seem strange, but perhaps one of the best things you could do for your entry into the hobby would be to play and experiment with what you have and learn some valuable lessons from it.

Learn that sectional track has its uses, but also its limits.

Learn that the few segments of flextrack allow you much greater latitude in determining your eventual and preferred track plan.

Learn that the turnouts (routing switches) are often troublesome in the snap or sectional track, almost without exception…perhaps the Kato unitrak is an exception, but I have no experience with it.

Learn that watching trains run in circles, even concentric circles with crossovers, is boring after a few long hours of it.

Learn that a more intricate, even purposeful, track layout is going to provide you with an enriched experience over the long haul. The more it allows you to duplicate what the real railroads do, the more involved and varied and fun it will be for you.

I don’t wish to belabour my point, so I will stop here with a wish that you have a great time and that you find a way to stay interested and learning.

Oh, by the way, the straight and curve interspersed it really how real railroads look…they are actually carefully surveyed and laid out curves joined by tangents. What we modellers learn to avoid is what we call “S” curves where cars and their engine are forced to change direction in the same counter-radii over the length of the car. This puts great pressure on the couplers and often results in frustrating derailments.

There is a wonderful book sold by our hosts, Kalmbach Publishing, called Track Planning for Realistic Operation. It was written by the late John Armstrong, and is one of the great reference books for the hobby. If you can’t find one locally, say in a library or with a known modeller, perhaps you can order one and study it for the gold mine that it is.&n

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If you’re a gamer ,you may get a kick out of conjuring up operating scenarios later on when you get the hang of the physical/mechnical bugs out of the track and rolling stock aspect of the hobby.

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No, you just have that funny lurching with the trains and it probably stresses them more than a nice continual curve. Ideally what one would want would be a really gentle curvature that gets gradually tighter into the desired radius. This is what people mean when they start talking about curve easements.

Steam or diesel is not the deciding factor. I would not try to run an SD90 or SD70e around 18" curves! The size of the fixed wheel base and if/how the truck(s) piviot. Most toy train steam locomotives also have axles with a whole lot of sideways play in them so they can slop back and forth around 18" curves. Athearns Genesis Challenger (4-6-6-4 steamer) claims it will go around 18" curves. It will look really stupid but it will make it. As Cudaken noticed the real problem with the Challenger is the five fix axles on the centiped tender. Bottom line is if you want to run steam locomotives on 18" curves then choose small steam locomotives like 4-4-0 Americans, 4-6-0 Ten Wheelers, 0-6-0 switchers (Proto2000 makes a nice one), 2-6-0 Moguls (IHC brand), 4-4-2 Atlantics, and 2-8-0 Consolidateds (Bachmann Spectrum makes a really nice one), and 4-6-2 Pacifics. If you want something heavier then maybe consider the trusty common workhorse Mikado 2-8-2. The Mountains, Northerns, and larger either compromise too much in the running quality, an

6

I used to use sectional track with my first two layouts and have found that using flex track on cork roadbed is a whole lot better. Flex track can be curved into any radii you want. In other words it’s fudgible. I finally just said goodbye to all the sectional track when i built my third layout and started using flex track exclusively. My layout has only one section of radius at 24" and most of the remaining radii is between 28" and 30." I can run anything on a radii that large. Another thing i did that helped my trains stay on the track was to use #6 turnouts on the main line track where the trains travel at higher rates of speed and use the #4 turnouts in the yards were the trains move slower and can navigate the tighter radius of the #4 turnouts…chuck

7

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Selector:

I’ve got a 5x8 space dedicated for this so far, and from the hobby reference I have right now and the online I’ve read, the Oval with spurs, an “exit” point and operating portions seem to be the best I can do. I personally don’t like the idea of doing a straight run that ends, as I like the continual runs, but is there some other way? (I discarded the idea of a figure 8 because it seems to limit the kinds of things you can do in the interior of the track for scenery.

Texas Zepher:

Well, almost all of the above :slight_smile:

I’ve played Warhammer 40,000 and Fantasy Battle for about 15 years (tabletop), FRP for nearly 20, Boardgames for about the same, computer simulation for as long as I can remember (I’m a video-game designer by trade now) but I have yet to get involved directly with the SFCA…

8

To appear more natural, you need something called a “transition curve.”

When you go from straight to sudden turn (Small radius) it creates a knee jerk reaction in the engine and rolling stock. The transition curve helps reduce this effect.

For example go from Straight->R36 Curve → R28 Curve → R22 Curve ->R22 Curve ->R28 Curve ->R36 Curve ->Straight section.

This topic is covered in John Armstrong’s Book on Realistic operations.

9

Seems like the Realistic Operations will be a great one to pick up, it’s on my list (along with some more flex track). After taking another look at the layout plan in the book it struck me that one of these sections is covered by a tunnel so I won’t even notice the unnatural curve.

On the visible section, I will try going for a transition curve. I have a guide-rule for a 24" curve already, I imagine going from 36 to 24 to 18 wouldn’t be so bad, and I will also try to modify it so perhaps it goes 24" unbroken around the curve with a transition before the straight.

Should the transition curves generally be of a long length? Or would doing shorter (3-4") transitions be acceptable?

10

Xcalibur, it sound as if you have given the trackplan some thought, and that is good. You are right about the spurs that service industries. Just don’t make them run all one way, or of the type where you shove or back in and then return the same way…maybe you could have room for a runaround track on a couple of them? Makes things interesting.

Similarly, you have some generous width at 5’ for some nice end curves…bravo! That could open up some central turf for you to have a modest three track yard, which by itself would be a huge coup. Yards add immense value to a layout, and do do the accompanying engine servicing facilities if it can be done without making the whole layout look like one large engine terminal and yard…it’ll be tricky. By all means, though, have about three or four industrial spurs and team tracks. If their rolling stock requirements are different, it’ll make the forming of consists in the classification yard an interesting process all by itself.

The point is some intricacy and variety will ensure that your layout continues to please and interest you this time next year, and perhaps the next until you find you are ready for round 2.

11

There is a whole science around transition curves, but a couple rules of thumb generally: the longer the better, short is better than none, wheel base of the longest locomotive off the straight track before it hits the tighest (final) part of the curve.

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X:

I think model railroading is basically tabletop gaming too, only with fewer orcs and robots, and instead of fighting wars, you are delivering coal and stuff. Notice I did not say no orcs and robots…

I am using snap-track too, at the moment, and I also have that sudden lurch. It’s not a big problem at normal operating speeds, but it is there. I believe the scientific term for it is “jerk”. (No, really. Jerk is the derivative of acceleration. Mass times jerk equals yank. It’s no wonder doctors use Latin). Still, the fixed geometry is really handy, so I deal with the jerk.

The broader the better, where curves are concerned, but 18" isn’t so bad. A lot of steam will take it. It’s not a matter of prototype fidelity, because almost everybody’s curves are too sharp in 1:1 terms, but of working properly.

13

My first suggestion would be to go to the library and read all the model RR books, then go to all the links in our sigs [like mine] that offer free tutorials and free info and read a lot of stuff.

Then just before your head explodes decide what to do with your layout etc :smiley:

Point is, learn as much as you can. As for my website download the pages and take your time reading and enjoying. [You have to ask the other guys for theirs]. There is a ton of free info out there.

As for radius. If you need bigger then don’t try to force the larger engine into the smaller radius. Doing so will lead to derailing locos etc and only frustration.

However if you want to use older pieces [older as in period or era not as in used equipment] then you can use smalled locos and then get away with the smaller radius.

Take your time and enjoy. Read a lot. Expect to make two or three layouts before you make your ‘dream’ layout.

Practice on an 8 x 4 piece of plywood for now to get new skills etc.

Most of all have fun:D

Hope that helps. :slight_smile: