Looks like the dealer margins are reasonably decent as the preorder 20% off on the high end stuff, plus the rebates brings the price of the Santa Fe steamer down as low as $1499, which is pretty much the same street price as previous JLC series stuff. Time to ungnash those teeth and sew up those rended garments, the apocalypse hasn’t arrived after all.
The Genset diesel after discount and $100 rebate is around $540, a far way from the $800 MSRP. People tend to forget that Lionel’s dealer margins are significantly higher in many instances than Atlas or MTH have been. The New Haven traditional EF4 Rectifier with TMCC/RS I’m interested in is under $300.
The prices are swaying me closer to 2 rail brass everyday . I can live without anymore crew chat engines … for extremely higher detail and quality of brass engines . I’m thinking of halting all O guage lionel…williams and k-line and getting into brass . Lionel is convincing me now that they have very little competition and are going price crazy . When Ebay finally runs dry on pre - lionel and older williams and the k-line originals look out … the prices of those have already sky rocketed in the last 6 months and MTH is’nt doing any less !
I for one find this catalog to be a mixed blessing.Sure there really isn’t much and I don’t really agree with some of the production choices (The 613 UP Diesel set for one), and there really isn’t much I want to get other than the 2343 Santa Fe F3’s and the White Pass NW2 with the white pass caboose and ice breaker car.
But the blessings are
I won’t be spending as much on trains this year (its my senior year in high school so thats a good thing, but I guess its always a good thing)
I’ll be able to catch up on purchases I wanted to make in the past (The new W&ARR 4-4-0 and passenger cars or the Hogwarts Express come to mind, maybe even the 0-6-0 Docksider or a new ZW Transformer)
Also having some extra money will en-able me to have the smoke unit pepaired and headlight re-placed (long story) on my Erie 4-6-4 Hudson, which was part of the first Lionel train set I got for christmas.
I personally think that Lionel could have made better choices for the Conventional Classics Line. A 736 or 2046 freight set would have been nice, and instead of the UP 613 set a Seaboard 6250 set. I would have loved to see a re-make of the 1615 work train set from 1955 or a Texas Special freight or passenger set, or even a 746 or 773 set, but all in good time I guess.
The way I look at it… I’m about to start building the city on the layout this coming summer… so good timing on the few items I want… Cowen’s Corner Hobby Store, Pet Store, and Crabby Matt’s. Guess I stop by the LTS later this week and put in my order… also just realized there are a couple things I missed in the Vol2 catalog…
I too like the Amtrak set. My layout has a 1950’s theme but I think it would be cool to have that futuristic Amtrak set running. I will wait and see what the final product looks like, I was also disappointed with the “horn and bell” description.
I thought the ATSF work set was pretty cool. I don’t like the Pullmor motors, but the crane and related cars appeal to me.
I too thought the Amtrack set looked rather attractive for the price. Especially with command control.
The Classic series UP work train…I absolutely love that set. In addition, the originals in excellent or better condition are a tough find, pricey, and aren’t the greatest runners with their cheesy sheet metal power frames. It’s likley the re-issue will be a smoother preformer.
The number of affordable standard O offerings far exceeds the Vision Line offerings. The CN coal train looks really cool. Same goes for the ATSF hoppers, That’s just the stuff that jumped out at me.
I don’t get the teeth chattering over Vision. It’s for the rivet counter. There is something for every budget in the catalog.
I havn’t looked at the entire catalouge yet, (just the vision line and the Conventional Classics) and I like both the GENSET and ES44AC Hybrid models. I should make a decision on which won I want - if they don’t cancel either one of them.
I just hope they live up the $800-$1000 price tag. [:O]
Nothing really good. Priced too high. Priced like that, I’ll buy Atlas O. May be [wash my mouth out] buying more MTH engines. Lionel has flubbed the dubb.
Chief … those are the same 2 conclusions I came to in the last 3 days after seeing the catalog . Atlas … which is exact/true scale and MTH engines … still descent priced compared to the others . Believe me … I NEVER thought I’d be buying MTH but they’re looking darn good ! I finally concluded with my cab-1 I can still run MTH in conventional type mode until I find a good deal on a dcs control system … I’ve written off williams … man have I viewed alot of problems with some of them … reverse swithches and boards to name a few … I sold a cab forward to my bro-inlaw … a guy on ebay then tried to rip me off for the one I thought I was getting … now MTH is what I’m shopping for . The new williams engines are in my opinion way less craftsmanship than the older brass units . No … no newer lionel … older units on ebay … still descently priced .
OldTimer. I would invest in DCS. It is a good system. Then you can run them all in command. All the “tales” about wiring problems are junk [unless you have a massive layout. Ran one on the carpet with crazy wiring and never had a problem [signal strength of 10 all the way around]. Larger layout in two rooms and still the same. If you do have problems, runs wires back to one location.
Yea … I’m going to have to bite the bullet and do it ! Another thing I like is the ability to upgrade the DCS system … something Lionel left us hanging on the tmcc . I’ll keep my one component to run the tmcc and give the rest to my son to give him a start … then he’ll only need to buy the one piece … the command base . Lionel has left us down on controllers . Oh well … one less engine for now but many more advanced for lower prices in the future . Thanks chief … I needed that little push … or kick in the rear … LOL . [tup]
I stopped by the hobby store today and picked my copy up. Placed an order for two items right away! A set of lighted 027 bumpers and a set of unlighted 027 bumpers.
Looked through it this evening. Nothing jumped out and made my hart go pitty pat.
Kind of disapointed to see that the collegate boxcar series has been discontinued - it will never be complete since they did not do a Michigan State University car!
The new Vision offerings look impressive, but they will not fit into my train budget.
Can anyone who has the hard copy of the caatalog tell me how big the actual size of that UP Switcher with the 3 engines is? I can not find it on the page.
Ole Timer,
If you haven’t seen/used Legacy let me know. You are more than welcome to stop down some Saturday and give it a go. IMHO, the Legacy Command System is far and away better than DCS - and yes Legacy can be upgraded as well. The first upgrade required the system to be shipped back to Lionel, the problem that resulted in this inconvenience has been resolved and no further shipping back to Lionel will be necessary.
Laz - From what I’ve seen there is NOTHING in the catalog about size, nor Minimum Operating Curve Radius for ANY of the Vision Line Engines… so I read that as ‘If you don’t have a 1 Scale layout you’re screwed…’
There is additional info in the product finder section of the Lionel web site. I don’t see the size listed, but the genset switcher has a minimum radius of 042.
Lionroar … see that’s what I get … never researched the new legacy system … will check it out . It’s just that lionel left us hanging with the cab-1 … and MTH built a much higher end system then . Sounds like a good idea and a great offer to try it ! Mind if my son comes along ? Wear your sunglasses … when he gets around a train setup … he gets those stars in his eyes … and his face lights up like a beacon … LOL . Just got back from checking it out … it still does’nt allow useage of DCS engine functions … as does the DCS which allows full functions of tmcc and maybe legacy also . Looks like MTH may win again .
Old Timer, you are right. Legacy does not allow you to have the full featuers of PS2 and DCS. That is just the same for DCS. DCS does not allow you to access the full TMCC and Legacy features when using DCS. You need both.
Bring him along! We can dim the lights in the train room. [:D][8D]
As Chief said, to access ALL the TMCC/Legacy engine features with DCS you need the Legacy System, if you want to access ALL the DCS engine features with a TMCC/Legacy setup you need the DCS Remote and a TIU… my problem was I didn’t want to invest in two systems, so I settled on Legacy… maybe in the future I’ll invest in DCS, but that won’t be till after the layout has been completed.