Thought I would take a minute to blow some steam and then get back to soldering feeder wires.
I’m building an 11x15 HO DCC layout with a lower level staging area. I’m an old hand at layout building, but this is my first pass at DCC - and I want to do it “right”. Most folks pretty much agree that feeders should be placed every three feet, they should be short (#18-20 awg), and connected to a 14awg bus.
Well, that is just what I’m doing, and frankly everything is going well. Right now I’m soldering in the feeders for the lower level trackage, and have 36 left to go. Ooops, that’s just getting one end soldered to the tracks, which means I have to go back and solder the other end to the bus wires.
So while I’m doing this, I did some mental calculating and figured that I’ll have about 230 individual feeder wires to solder before I’m done! That equates to 460 solder joints, and that’s only for the track power! Yikes, I’ve still got to wire in a handful of block toggles, a plethora of turnout motor connections, and of course I’ve still got to wire in the DCC system itself.
Thankfully, I’ve got the tools, and can handle an iron, and once the lower level is wired it will be some time before I will be doing the main level wiring. But geeeee, that sure is a lot of soldering!!!
Hey, all that being said - I’m still having fun!!!
I cheated. But if you cheat like I did, you need to make a reminder so that you can undo the cheating instead of having it stuck in cheater mode until somethign fails a year or so down the road and you wonder why.
How did I cheat? Well, since I used a solid wire for my feeders, most of them I just wrapped around the bus wires and went back later - soemtimes weeks later - to actually solder the connections. Everythign ran fine - to be honest both loops on an 8x12 worked with ONE set of feeders hookd directly to my Zephyr before I even instaleld the bus. This let me lay track, run trains, etc. without every work session being “solder feeder” “solder feeder” In general what I did was for each new section that went down, I hooked up and soldered one pair of feeders - if that section had 4 or 5 sets of feeders, the other 3 or 4 just got wrapped tightly around the bus wire (after stripping both), and later on when I was in a ‘soldering mood’ I went back and soldered the others.
Truth be told, with fresh new track and new joiners (so they aren’t all loose and floppy), feeders every 3 feet are NOT required - it’s just good insurance, and cheap since all it really takes is time. The layout will run fine with feeders every 6 feed, or even 9 - FOR A WHILE. Eventually the joiners will work loose, or paint will get in them when you paint the rail, or glue will get in them when you apply ballast - and then you’ll be wishing the joiner was not being relied on to conduct power from one track section to the next.
I sympathize with all the soldering (not empathize, yet, as I’ll be doing some next week!).
This is also my first time going DCC. As I’ve just got a 9x7 shelf, I’m thinking of going with 18 bus & 22 or 20 feeders. While I’ll be soldering the feeders to the track, why not go with the suitcase connectors between the feeders & bus?
I got some GardnerBender “Tap Splice” connectors, though there are other makes / models. See the wiring issue of MR about the Beer Line.
Wow, I did that as a matter of course on my 24x24’ layout and it’s DC! But there’s a difference–I’m in a largely uninsulated garage (California Basement) and it’s subject to all kinds of neat, weird temperature changes throughout the year. So every 3 feet just seems like good insurance to me.
But you’re right, it may be fun, but it sure gets TIRING after a while [:P]. Had a buddy over a couple of weeks ago (not a model railroader) and when he peeked under the layout, he said, “What’s the big NET for?” “It’s not a net, it’s Buss-Wiring.” “I don’t see any Bus down there.”
Mobilman, your big mistake here was quantifying the number of solder joints BEFORE you made them. It’s like standing at the bottom of a long hill and looking up the path you’re going to walk to get to the top. It’s a lot easier if you watch the ground directly in front of you as you travel, or in this case, look at each solder joint individually. Suddenly, you’ll realize you’re at the top or all the joints are done.
Dont feel bad. I built 5 HO modules and soldered feeders to every piece of rail no matter how far apart. I considered soldering the joiners but decided against it due to the large humidity and temperature changes they go through. Plus its a lot easier to change a rail if and when it gets damaged. If I count I probably have over 200 solder points on 16 x 4 feet of rail road. The only good part is I can turn them upside down to solder the bottom to the buss.
Mr. Mobil - I wish you much good luck. I’m a DC guy and judging from all the posts concerning DCC that I read on these forums, that’s my story, and I’m stickin’ to it! 460 solder joints, WOW, I will nominate you for sainthood when you are through; please inform.
Every 3 feet and 14 gauge wire is overkill, in my opinion. I wired a large (20 x 40 foot) HO scale layout with feeders every 6 feet (every other flex track joint) and used speaker wire from Wal-mart for the main bus and we have had no electrical problems. The layout is over 10 years old now.
Since I use one feeder per rail section and solder jumpers around every non-insulated rail joint, I have 2+ solder joints per length of rail…
That being said, I believe that it isn’t the number of solder joints, it’s their location. I would rather deal with a hundred connections at terminal blocks just behind the fascia than with one solder joint made while standing on my head under the benchwork. That’s why all of my feeders are brought out to the aisleway, one end soldered at the rail and the other secured to a clearly-labeled stud terminal on a terminal block.
The other thing that I find indispensible is a complete, detailed set of circuit schematics. Some of my circuits are not very intuitive (ballast lamps in series with indicators on two different panels, for example. I don’t want to rely on memory to help me when one of the four lamps fails. A quick look at the diagram for NNLT1N/R will point me at the exact spots where failure might have occurred, which could be adjacent to the switch machine, at Zone Panel NN or at the master CTC panel. With full documentation, I never have to ask, “What does THIS connect to???”
Wiring is really not my thing. Whenever I heat up my soldering iron, I know that I will end up with badly burned fingers and a laughing wife. But there is a solution to each problem. My solution has the name Lothar and is a neighboring professional electrician and fellow model railroader. He does (nearly) all my wiring and every time it is a pro´s job!
Thanks for all the comments, they are appreciated!
The “hard part” is soldering the feeders to the track. Soldering to the bus wires, etc. is easy to me. The difficulty in soldering to the track is mainly due to the location of some, and the fact that some of the track is recycled from the previous layout and has been weathered. Yes, I cleaned up the solder locations and use flux as needed, but it sure does slow down the process. Frankly, if I had to do it over I would seriously consider buying all new track.
All track joints (ex blocks, etc.) are soldered, and the layout is in a climate controlled room. So perhaps installing feeders every three feet is overkill. However, it is a lot easier to do it now than to come back after the main level is installed and try to do it then.
Anyway, I’m now treating this “job” as I did painting the backdrops. I’ll solder 10 or so and when I get antsy, I unplug the iron and go do something else. And then, I’ll come back to it - again, and again, and again, and you get the picture.
By the way, I picked up a Klein “automatic” wire stripper and it works absolutely great - especially in clearing off 1/4 inch of insulation on the bus wires to allow feeder wire soldering.
What I am about to say is tantamount to blasphemy to many but on my layout - about 12 x 14 - I started out doing the soldering thing and got tired and frustrated with melted track, burned fingers, etc. So I went with the terminal rail joiners to the track with suitcase connectors to the bus lines. No problems at all. I’ll run 4 or 5 engines at a time with no lack of power to any. All have sound. I sometimes think the soldering option is overrated.
I thought about using the “wired track joiners” but felt it was just as easy for me to solder feeders directly to the track. And, as I solder track joints, the heat would probably release the wire attached to them. Anyway, I decided to go the traditional way.
Soldering is not difficult for me - EXCEPT - when I’m soldering the recycled track. I’ve got a little pencil type wire brush that works pretty well, but its still a bit of a pain. Ha, one other thing I neglected to mention is that my previous layout was built in the early '90s when I was around 50 and I’m 14 years older now (just turned 65) - and that has to make some difference!
That was another one of my ‘cheats’, I used temrinal joiners that I made up myself. Had my ‘helping hands’ set up to hold the feeder and a joiner in proper orientation,adn I’d make a dozen sets sitting comfortably at the workbench. EVERY joint got one of these - thus a given turnout had 3 pairs of feeders on it! Definitely no issues with power to the track, even after painting the rails.
Soldering underneath is no problem - that’s the job for the ‘Big Gun’ and also those good strippers (mine are Ideal but same as the Klein). Also since my newlayout is being designed to first of all please ME and not as a compromise, the height is such that I can sit on a chair and not be having to reach up and solder over my head, complete with possibility of drippign hot solder. The previous layout was lower and I couldn;t sit under it, so I had to squat which is hard on the knees
Whoa ! Now that you have the tracks wired to “feeders”, let’s reverse the order of "wiring to the #14bus. With a DCC setup, I assume that you will have reverse loops and wyes. On my 24’x24’ around the room DCC layout I have 270 yds of flextrack, 112 turnouts,6 reverse loops, and 3 wyes. You mentioned “a handful of block toggles”. I assume that this means that you have already divided your layout into a “Handful” of isolated and insulated blocks, such that each block is independent of every other block. This implies that you are connecting the main #14 bus to each of the “#16sub-buses” through toggle switches. You can connect wires with “suitcase connectors” (without soldering, or even stripping)!
Before you start soldering the feeders to the sub-buses, and sub buses to the main bus, let’s make sure that you know about the DCC wiring. With 6 multi-reverse loops imbedded with a 7 track pass-through staging yard, 3 wyes, and hidden runn arounds and cross-overs,(divided between and overlapping four isolated Power districts), one has to make sure that there isn’t a “short” lurking somewhere. Remember, that even though one “block” may not have a short (when operated alone), you may have a short when two adjacent blocks are " electrified". (Or shalI say, “electrifried?” I will be using “tail-light” short locaters, on my layout. Test out each Power District,(with running trains and signals), as you progress. I made detailed drawings of my layout and got the help of "knowledgeable DCC modelers, before "doing the wiring and “turning on the DCC” -------- "So that ,------ you are still “having fun!” Bob Hahn
A few seemingly random thoughts that popped in my head as I read this thread:
I have always soldered most of my rail joints with no expansion/contraction problems.
Like Chuck I am a DC operator, using a modified version of MZL control and I run only one feeder to each isolated track section, but again, the rail joints are soldered.
Also in line with Chuck’s advice, good planning and documentation makes wiring easy to do and easy to maintain.
I know several DCC guys with dozens of those famous “every three feet” feeders still not all hooked up. Their layouts run fine.
My experiance as an Electrican has shown me that good mechanical connections are as good as solder, so crimp terminals, butt splices, and screw terminal blocks are used for most under layout wiring, no soldering while laying on the floor looking up for me. Model train layouts are better placed in controlled environments, controlled environments don’t need everything soldered - I save soldering for the rail to rail and rail to wire connections or solder lugs on electrical switches/components only.
I lay my bus wires out on top of the track, drill holes for the feeders, and solder the feeders to the bus wires at locations that match where the holes are. Then I hang the bus wires underneath the tracks and fish the feeders through the holes using a small hook. Last step is to solder the feeders to the rails. Of course, this only works for “new construction.” Adding new tracks or feeders later requires working on the bus wires underneath the tracks. I like this method even with suitcase connectors because it minimizes work underneath the tracks. In fact, if I get lazy, I can just let the bus wires hang from the feeders. Then there is almost no work underneath.
I use the suitcase connectors also as mentioned above. You can get a buch of different sizes to accomondate different gauge wire. That will cut the soldering down in half. Probably cut the time the work takes down down quite a bit too.
FWIW my last layout was a 6’ by 16’ HO layout, originally wired for DC using standard hobby shop wiring. All I did when I switched to DCC was add a DCC controller (Digitrax Zephyr) and a switch to go back and forth from DC to DCC. It worked fine, I didn’t need to add new heavy gauge wiring etc.
One thing I did on that layout was use Atlas joiners with the pre-soldered on wires between every 3’ section of flextrack. They have them for both code 100 and code 83. Cost more than regular ones did but make wiring much easier.
