Jim Wrinn’s article concerning employing rail fans to help with security was specifically referenced.
I think the idea has merit, if restricted sufficiently. They could allow a rail fan to register at the local police station, be given a special identification card, and sign an agreement that any identification card would be revoked if the fans went off public property without permission.
It will be interesting to see how things work out.
In any event, good job Jim. Way to get the issue out there and to rally the troops.
I don’t know about all that. There are just too many irresponsable railfans out there that would give us all a bad name. Raising awareness of our hobby is probably a good thing. But to involve railfans in security will do more harm then good in my opinion.
I disagree. At least insofar as you keep them/us at arm’s length.
Yes, if the involvement consists of anything more than an idenfication that will instantly alert the police you are a person who might know what they are talking about, an absolute restriction to proceed on rail property without permission, and no more invovlement than having your cell phone handy to call in a possible problem, you will have the problems to which you alude.
However, it is not likely that Mr. Wrinn is supporting issuing every rail fan a sub machinegun, a free pass to tresspass, hand-to-hand combat instruction, etc.
I think the limited involvement would essentially be what we already do now, it would just expedite the process of (1) allowing us to photograph and watch trains from public property and (2) communicating between law enforcement should there be a problem.
But do railfans really know what a real problem is? Of course most of us can recognise some of the obvious things like shifted loads or a car leaking hazardous liquids. But what about the things one might think is a problem when it’s really not, like flat spots on wheels and fire coming out of GE exhaust stacks? I think over zellous railfans will end up crying wolf too often and destroy our credibility more than it already is. I am a responsable railfan and it is very rare to have a bad encounter with the law myself. And as far as the terrorist thing goes I just don’t think the freight railroads have anything to worry about. There are just way too many targets that would be much more damageing than a freight train, even if they got a tanker full of hazardous materials. Just my opinion.
Boy, I don’t know. Someone forgot to set a switch and over 10 civilians died. That is not trying to do harm. I think our freight railroads are as big of a target as there can be.
Gabe,
I’m not sure what you are talking about. So how does someone forgetting to set a switch relate to terrorism? Sounds like neglagance to me. And I don’t dispute that railroads could be a target. I just think there are many targets that could be much more damaging and that’s what the terrorists want to do is cause big damage / loss of life.
And the preffered method of acomplishing this also involves suicide. So what are they going to do? Stand next to a tank car and blow themselves up? I just don’t see it myself.
Has there been freight railroads attacked by terrorists in the past?
Many cities have police auxillaries. These are volunteers that have invested in 20 to 40 hours of training and are certified to ride along with an officer. Puts two in a car for not much more funding that one.
Perhaps the same training model would work with railfans.
Maybe I’m just an old curmudgeon,but I don’t want to “register” with the police for railfanning or anything else.I am not a sex offender or a criminal of any sort,and I resent the implication that I/we are.I will also not spy or report “suspicious” activity like some Blochleiter in Nazi germany,unless its obviously a danger.Where is this all gonna lead to?
The identification card may be an idea that gets some debate from the different railroads and law enforcement agencies. We may not see anything right away and the cards may be issued on a selective basis. True, there could be those who run around the countryside crying “wolf” and there will always be the one “bad apple”.
Here in the Midwest, east central Kansas, the chances for police/county deputy harrassment are quite slim. The law cannot cover all of the photography locations. Besides, most of the BNSF crews are used to railfans watching from time to time.
I read Mr. Wrinn’s article, made a special point to buy the magazine, and feel it is worth copying and having handy.
As far as being issued a card myself, I don’t go track side as often as I like, but do a lot of Listenin’ In with the scanner. I can hear plenty to understand what is going on outside.
Let me be the devil’s advocate again.I agree with Chad Thomas there may be too many irresponsible railfans or there might be too many railfans who think they know what a real problem is, but only to find out what they see as a problem is not really a problem.; so I don’t think a railfan security ID card would work. Further, what’s to prevent a terrorist or a terrorist sympathizer from getting one? Another question, will the railroads listen to railfan observers any way, especially since most railroads have defect detectors placed at certain intervals to detect problems such as dragging equipment.
I think Jim Wrinn’s editorial should be sent to various law enforcement agencies around the country to explain us, explain our hobby, and educate them that the guy near the tracks with a camera around his neck is not achmed the terrorist.
That said, considering that freight railroads carry hazardous cargo you cannot discount them as terrorist targets.
I am referring to the NS mishap in Carolina, where someone merely forgot to set a switch in dark territory.
A terrorist on a dark night with a pair of bolt cutters could do more damage misalligning switches infront of a train loaded with clorine than was done by the entire London bombings.
No one said that you had to do anything; that would be compulsory labor, which is a constitutional prohibition. I am pretty sure Mr. Wrinn was talking about a volunteer basis.
So, you think the know-it-all, bad apple rail fans don’t call everytime they see a problem now, but they would with a card that would help identify them more promptly?
But if that’s there intent there is really nothing you can do to stop them short of having a security guard every X feet across the whole system and have lights along the whole line. Even if every railfan were out “watching” the railroad how much coverage could that possably be. Very little. I just think it’s a bad idea to invite railfan involvement with railroad “security”. Besides if we had to register with a government agency how long would it be before they started charging $$$ to be a “licensed railfan”. [8D]