Hello JPM335, (btw: enjoyed viewing your paint jobs!)
Just my opinion as others may chime in with different views.
I heard a demo of an MRC diesel decoder at a train show. It was inside of an HO F7. I kid you not, to me the prime mover sounded like steady, static noise! (woossssshh!). It wasn’t the baritone chant of an EMD 567. I found the noise rather annoying. The only pleasant sound was the bell, which was louder than the horn. The horn, through the static, sounded like a Nathan.
O.K Joe. If the generic “sounds” reasonably close to an EMD 567, then I could see myself putting it inside of an HO switcher like an SW8 or 9. It’s my Road and Passenger engines that will be my “super stars”. I want the sharpest sounds out of those puppies.
I know its guys like me that would drive Soundtraxx and QSI managers nuts as I’m, to a fault, picky about diesel locomotive sounds since I’ve heard so many prototypes “up close and personal” in my younger days. First and 2nd gen. EMD, and GE. Also got to hear Alco and Baldwin switchers before they dissappeared off SCL’s roster in the late 70s. I even made some recordings of various units back then with a small “boom box”.
I’m very optimistic about the future of sound systems on HO and N scale trains. As time goes on, the technology can only get better. Even though Soundtraxx “appears” to be spinning its wheels, others will likely step up to the plate. [;)]
High Greens!
Here’s my best guess on the DSD100LC … it sounds like a 1st Generation EMD diesel with a Nathan airhorn. You can pick the number of chimes.
I’ll see if I can make a recording and post it so you can see what it sounds like.
Joe,
Have you found anyone making a sound decoder for a Baldwin engine?
Bob Hayes
Bob:
Have you looked at Dallee Electronics? They list some sound units for DCC that include a Baldwin Prime mover. See: http://www.dallee.com/dc_diesel.htm
I don’t know much about their offerings but they do say, and I quote:
Locomotive Sound Systems for
DC TRACK POWER
COMMAND CONTROL SYSTEMS, DCC, OTHER CARRIERS & RADIO
Diesel Sounds
In looking at their installation manuals, it looks like it’s possible to connect their sound module up to a decoder and have it function as you would expect (auto ratchet up RPM with throttle, F2 for horn, F1 for bell, etc). However, their sound unit is not a decoder, so there’s no CVs involved in configuring its operation. It is their own proprietary sound unit. See page 6 of their straight DC sound unit manual:
http://www.dallee.com/PDFs/DIESEL-V3.pdf
These sound units are $99 each and you control things like volume with a small pot right on the board. Not exactly cheap or convenient, but if you want the sounds they have, it’s an option.
Okay, here’s the promised post that lets you see and hear what an HO diesel lashup with all the goodies is like – and without spending an arm and a leg. This lashup has a Digitrax DH142 with headlights (F0) and gyralights (F1) in the lead and rear units, and a Soundtraxx DSD100LC “generic” diesel sound decoder ($80 street price), with the horn (F2) and bell (F3) in the middle unit. These are all Kato SD45s.
Click here to see the video clip: http://mymemoirs.net/model-trains/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=930
The engine RPM will rev up and down automatically with the throttle setting – I didn’t demonstrate that in this video clip. But you should get a pretty good idea what it all sounds like and looks like from this clip.
How to make your diesel lashups look and sound like this is completely demonstrated step-by-step in my upcoming video on all things DCC (Siskiyou Line video volume 3). See: http://model-trains-video.com for more.
Joe,
Man, that was very impressive! I really enjoyed the link. The working gyra light is a real attention-getter. Is that an LED or bulb?
RE: “The Locomotive Music”.
Sounds good! I see what you mean about your turning up the volume on the prime mover. The quality, IMHO, was pretty good. In fact, from listening to it, it sounded like you didn’t even have to turn up the volume.
I recognized that sound right away. You are correct in that this sound decoder is that of the EMD 567 (1st generation), which would be appropriate for GM locomotives from the Geep, E, F, and SW “7” series models up to the GP/ SD “35” series. (also the BL2 and NW-2)
I’m thinking now that this might be a cool decoder for my P2K GP7.[;)]
Thanks so much for the link, Joe! I hope everyone else here appreciates your hard work!
[swg][tup][C):-)][tup]
Peace!
Antonio:
Those are 1.5V 30ma Miniatronic bulbs. They’re 1.2mm in diameter, and fit perfectly into a hole drilled with a #55 bit. I wire them in series and glue them into the holes with silicone sealant so I can replace them easily if they burn out.
The 30ma bulbs are rated at 1,000 hours, so if you burn them about 8 hours a month (for me it’s more like 4 hours a month with one 3 hour op session a month + maybe a bit more running I might do) – they should last close to 10 years.
It’s nice to know what prime mover this is. I suspected it was 1st Generation EMD, but was not sure. Thanks to you, too, Antonio!
Hey Joe
Any tips on speed matching locomotives? I find it quite a laborious task. Any insights into this aspect of decoder programming would be appreciated!
Joe,
Thanks alot. I just go to read your post and it was very clear. Maybe you should consider writing a book (Like the strategy guides for video games) perhaps it could be called dcc secrets revealed. I only wonder how many people would buy it thinking it was the other DCC (Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders). Just a thought but seriously your answer was perfect. Thanks again.
Jesse
Rhuddlestan:
Will be talkiing about how to speed match locos in my DCC Forum clinic as one of the topics.
One tidbit now that may help - I use DecoderPro to program my decoders since that lets me use a laptop and “clicky-clicky” with a mouse to quickly program decoders. To speed match I program on the main and use two windows – one for each of the locos in DecoderPro.
Very convenient.
P.S. Will be demonstrating this in my upcoming video on things DCC.
Hey Joe
Wondered if I might be jumping the gun with my question. I look forward to your further discussion of the DCC world. Much usefull info! Thanks a lot!!!
Rob
Joe!
I’ve got a bone to pick with ya! (O.K, maybe a splinter ). I found something you didn’t share on this forum before. It’s on the website where you have the sound equipped locomotive lashup.
After playing the videos several times and enjoying the locomotive concert, I finally scrolled down to the posts and noticed that you posted a quick line regarding a “quirky” problem with Soundtraxx’s DSX decoder. Would you mind elaborating on this?
I was considering the DSX option since it “supposedly” offers a more powerful sound than the DSD “L” series due to the DSX’s more powerful amplifier.
Thanks!
Antonio:
I’m out starting today and won’t be back online until Monday.
Got your question and will address it then. In the meantime, off to the SP mini-meet!
[:D]
Joe,
Thanks for the info in Dallee’s sound systems. They seem to have what I’m looking for.
Great video. Have you tried running 3 sound equiped units together, and is there any improvement in sound? Do they sound like 3 separate units or just one?
Bob Hayes
Antonio:
Back from the SP meet (had a great time … will be posting a complete report with photos over on my forum) so let me address your DSX question.
The DSX decoder, as you may know, is the sound half of the SoundTraxx DSD150 series of premium sound decoders (being replaced by the Tsunami). Since the DSX is only the sound part of the decoder, it acts really goofy if you happen to program a CV that’s “not there” as part of the motor control.
In addition, there is no “DSX” manual. You have to use a DSD150 manual and guess as to which CVs apply to the DSX and those that do not. It’s not always really obvious which ones do and don’t.
The trouble is, a standard decoder will briefly spin the motor to respond during programming so you know the change “took”. With the DSX, you don’t have that. I found I would change a CV setting, get no feedback that it took, and then when I tried the decoder it didn’t seem like anything changed. Without the motor hanging off the decoder, there’s no easy way to readback CV settings either.
Now if you want to add the DSX as a sound add on to a unit with a motor decoder, life gets interesting too, because there’s going to be CV overlaps and you will drive yourself nuts if you make both decoders the same address. You’re better off to consist the DSX in so it has it’s own unique address for addressing CVs but will play sounds on the consist address. But if you run double-ended consists like I do, this ham-strings your options if you want the sound decoder to work in both consists (one consist is left-to-right, the other consist is right-to-left – very handy for modern diesel op sessions where you run a turn).
In short, working with a DSX decoder really leaves a lot to be desired. It’s almost easier to spring for a DSD100 series decoder that’s expecting a motor, even if you’re targeting a dummy unit. Just run some jumpers from the gray and orange wires on the sound decoder and connect them to the m
Bob:
I haven’t really tried this … I guess I ought to.
The jump from no sound to one unit in the lashup with sound is so significant, I suspect the addition of still more units with sound in the same lashup won’t add that much more like the jump from no sound to sound does.
At the price of sound-equipped locos and sound decoders, I’ve been so pleased with the addtion of a single sound unit to the lashup that I haven’t been especially concerned about wanting to increase the cost still more by putting more units with sound in the lashup.
Besides, adding sound to a loco doubles or triples its current draw. So put enough sound-equipped locos on your layout and you’ll need to double or triple the number of power boosters you need to use, which means adding sound to most of your locos becomes a good way to double or triple the cost of your layout – no kidding, since the single most expensive thing you have on your layout are your locos.
Joe,
I wasn’t suggesting you go out and buy more sound decoders. I just thought you probably had at least 3 consists with 1 sound equiped loco in each, that you could break up and re-assemble into a 3 unit all sound equiped consist and maybe post a short video of how they sound together.
Bob Hayes
Bob:
Sure, that’s what I meant by “I ought to try this …” was to take sound units from several lashups and try just what you asked to see if it sounds any different.
But even if it does, I bet it’s not that much different, so it’s more of an academic exercise than a call to run out and buy lots more sound decoders … [;)]
But I will try it and let you know what I think.
Joe,
RE: Dallee Sound modules that you mentioned earlier.
Have you heard locomotives equipped with these before? If so, how would you compare them to Soundtraxx equipped units?
The Dallee Web site lists the available diesel locomotive sounds. Looks like a nice variety, however, Dallee doesn’t provide “sound samples” to click on to.
Thanks![:D][8D]