In the old western movies, the good guys and bad guys are always running along the tops of train cars. Were train cars built differently back then that the roof surfaces were close enough to each other to do that?
I’ve seen lots of illustrations of the bad old days, showing several brakemen on top of old-time trains-always in a blizzard-turning brake wheels on top of cars. Where did those guys ride when their braking services weren’t needed?
Back in the ‘olden days’ box type cars did have a roof walkway along the centerline of the cars. Also in the olden days, freight train speeds I have been led to believe were in the 20-30 MPH range or less - especially in the days before air brakes. In the days before air brakes, brakemen had to move from car to car to apply the stemwinder brakes on each car using their brake club for additional leverage on the brake wheel. Brakes were applied on whistle signal and would also be released on whistle signal.
Box type cars were still built with roof walkways into 1960’s (I think). The specific date where roof walkways were made illegal is October 1, 1966. After the date of illegality, the side ladders on cars, to reach the roof, were removed when the cars went through car shops for routine repairs. Covered hopers still have roof walkways, however, they exist for the personnel that load and unload the cars, not for railway employees.
Brakemen would reside in the caboose, if it wasn’t necessary for them to be on the cars actively brakeing or releaseing brakes - considering the ‘built on the lay of the ground’ nature of early railroads there would be many occasions where brakeing would be required to maintain control of the train. Cuts an
Some steam locomotive tenders had a small room behind the coal bin for the head end brakeman.
In this old railroad-themed Hollywood movie you can see the roofwalks in use starting just before the 3 minute mark and again a minute or two later (James Cagney!).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayedmZCMoGQ
Cars with roofwalks were not finally banned from interchange service until I believe the mid-1970’s, although new cars stopped being built with roofwalks in the early 60’s. Of course some cars still have roofwalks for loading, like covered hoppers.
From that angle, it looks like there’s only inches between the roofs? Was there no space, or very little space on the ends. between the cars?
The roofwalks did overhang the end of the cars a bit, but they weren’t super close together when coupled up. Maybe about a foot apart. This link has some good pictures from WW2 era…
https://www.mylargescale.com/threads/question-about-boxcars-1940s.12919/
Note too that on many cars the brakewheel was sticking up above the roofline a bit. They could be operated from the roof itself, but also could be set from the ladder or steps leading up the end of the car. Before retarders were put into humpyards, yard workers would ride towards the tops of the cars to manually brake them after they went over the hump.
p.s. This old GN training film has some good information about roofwalks / brakes too, starting about 15 minutes in. But you might want to watch the whole thing, it’s pretty good (and has some model railroading towards the end.)
A typical road crew in Texas when my dad was firing in the late Thirties was
Locomotive Cab - Engineman, Fireman, Head Breakman
Caboose - Conductor, Rear Brakeman, Swing Brakeman
The front and rear brakemen had the the duty of flagging if the train made an unnscheduled stop outside yard limits. They also opened and closed turnouts as needed. The swing brakie covered the center of the train when they had to decorate the car tops and relayed signals between the cab and caboose when switching. The caboose crew also manned the cupola when the train was in motion. This was usually a task of one or both brakemen as the conductor would be busy at his desk working on his wheel report and other paperwork. As mentioned, the brakemen had wooden staves they inserted between the spokes of brake wheels to give them leverage when turning the wheel. In an earlier and rougher age, they made handy weapons against various miscreants.
On coal fired locomotives, the head end brakie often helped and spelled the fireman on tough stretches - many times he had more experience than the often new fireboy and could provide tips on how to fire the locomotive.
IIRC, sometime in the early Thirties, the ICC issued a ukase that the headend brakeman needed a place to sit down. Many lines just installed a folding seat behind the fireman. It was not uncommon for new steamers to have elongated cabs to accomodate this feature.
The luckiest were given their own “doghouse” on the tender, where they rode nice, dry and warm in solitary steam heated splendor.
[quote user=“BEAUSABRE”]
A typical road crew in Texas when my dad was firing in the late Thirties was
Locomotive Cab - Enginman, Fireman, Head Breakman
Caboose - Conductor, Rear Brakeman, Swing Brakeman
The front and rear brakemen had the the duty of flagging if the train made an unnscheduled stop outside yard limits. They also opened and closed turnouts as needed. The swing brakie covered the center of the train when they had to decorate the car tops and relayed signals between the cab and caboose when switching. The caboose crew also manned the cupola when the train was in motion. This was usually a task of one or both brakemen as the conductor would be busy at his desk working on his wheel report and other paperwork. As mentioned, the brakemen had wooden staves they inserted between the spokes of brake wheels to give them leverage when turning the wheel. In an earlier and rougher age, they made handy weapons against various miscreants.
On coal fired locomotives, the head end brakie often helped and spelled the fireman on tough stretches - many times he had more experience than the often new fireboy and could provide tips on how to fire the locomotive.
IIRC, sometime in the early Thirties, the ICC issued a ukase that the headend brakeman needed a place to sit down. Many lines just installed a folding seat behind the fireman. It was not uncommon for new steamers to have elongated cabs to accomodate this feature.
The luckiest were given their own “doghouse” on the tender, where they rode nice, dry and warm in solitary steam heated splendor.
Seems like I’ve read that on more than a few occasions, trains arrived at their next terminal short a crew member, said crew member having fallen off the roof enroute…
Probably had a form for that…
___ # of crewmembers at begining of shift
___ # of crewmembers at end of shift
_________ Names of crewmembers to have their pay docked [:-,]
In reading through serveral ICC derailment reports about incidents that happened in mountainous territory - the reports made it seem like a brakemans duty - back then - was also to turn up and turn down retainers on moving trains. That must have been even more fun than all their other duties - note this is during that air brake era, not the pre-air brake era where the brakeman was simultaneously the brake application and retainer.
Based on info in the 1940 Car Builders Cyclopedia, and confirmed by a few other sources, the distance between the typical steam era house car was 43", and the typical roof walkway projected 8-10 inches past the end of the car, making the gap to be stepped over between 23 and 27 inches.
Sheldon
You can still see elevator personnel walking between covered hoppers when they are getting ready to load them.
Reading accounts that date to that era, it might not take that many brakes to slow or stop a train. (Of course, we’re not talking about mountain grades.) It was possible with some cabooses to rig a chain from the caboose to the last car. Operating the caboose brake also set up the last car’s brake. On a small, slow train that might be enough to control speed, even stop when taking into account the engine’s brake being used.
Other times and other places you’ld have the two, or three, brakemen “deckorating” the top. And yes, there were many accounts of brakemen, especially during bad weather, being blown from the tops.
Jeff
When cushioned underframes extended the distance between cars some cars were given extended roofwalks to span the extra distance.
How did the brakeman move from car to car on an empty hopper train?
Those guys must have been acrobats.
As my grandfather would say, the good old days weren’t all that good.
Yes, on the ones I’ve seen, the brakeman is seated facing backwards. There were windows on the rear and side walls, but the side facing the engine was usually blank.
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/dog-house
On some railroads in steam days, the caboose crew job titles were conductor, (rear) brakeman, and flagman.
Not sure I would want all those cinders coming in on my back as I watched to the rear in a doghouse, hence the blank facing the front. Even oil burners left a residue.
In the 1890s, it was uncommon for brakemen to leave a high car by riding its roof when it detached from the car during high wind. These accidents are from the Railroad Gazette in their monthly tally of train accidents:
October 1888
26th, on New York, New Haven & Hartford, near New Haven, Ct., the roof of a car in a freight train was blown off by a heavy gust of wind. A brakeman was carried into the air with it, but saved himself by catching hold of several telegraph wires.
January 1894
26th, on Norfolk & Western, near Nace, Va., the roof of a car in a freight train was blown off by a high wind while the train was on a trestle 90 ft. high, and a brakeman who was on the roof fell with it to the ravine below, and was killed.
December 1892
Was the brakeman on top of the cars an entry level job from which you could work your way up to being the president of the company? Or was it an unskilled labor job, working as a replaceable part in a machine?