Ok I am about ready to throw in the towel on having a running big boy! My first 2 where Athearn and between the tenders, decoders and one pulling the front trucks olny going left.
I finaly saved up the money for a PCM Big Boy it would be the saver of my Big Boy Quest! Not!!!
I think there is a two fold problem.
1 There seems to be little down forces on the tender with it being die cast. At first I thought it was because the draw bar was fitting the coupler pole in the tender to tight. Cleaned up the flashing on the draw bar and lubed the pole.
Then I saw this.
Seems the draw bar is resting on the rear engine. Rear engine is the rear drivers. There is what looks like a counter weight shaped like a hammer head under the cab.
That may very well be the problem but while I was playing with it I found a nother.
Used a section of flex track at work with 3 of my business under it and the rear axles would pick up as the center axles hit it. Tried removing some of the center wheels but same thing.
Engine is going back to PCM, darw bar is one reason but the head light and number boards don’t work as well.
Here is where you are welcome to call me stupid. I don’t think the draw bar alone is going to fix all the problem with the tender, there are just to many wheels on the darn thing. Plus I don’t have the time to rebulid all my track. My other steam engines love my crappy
Tonight I tried to find away for the Big Boy to run with out the tender hooked to engine. Draw bar is to long to get it to run. So I tried a driffrent way.
Thinking the tender is the main problem I lashed it to the front of my Class J BLI. Now being pushed is driffrent than be pulled but it is staying on the rails?
I ran the tender backwards and forward and there are no problems, maybe it is just a draw bar problem?
I hope to hear from you folks that are more advances than me.
Far be it from me to throw in the towel, Ken, but it may be asking too much to get one of these scale monsters to negotiate your trackwork. In your first photo it looks as though the front engine finally picked the rail joint on that curve, which may be kinked, or have a burr or misalignment of the rails that would catch the flange. I notice that you seem to have a feeder wire soldered to the inside of the outer rail, which is bad news and may cause an obstruction. At any rate, your Big Boy doesn’t look happy on that curve.
Also, vacuum up your layout! all of that debris & dirt isn’t going to do your precision locos any favors.
The drawbar looks like the tender may have some of its weight resting on the back of the rear engine, which will lift the front drivers if the tender is heavy enough. What material is the drawbar made of? The old Rivarossi BB’s had a steel drawbar that often needed to be adjusted between interfering with the trailing truck and lifting the front of the tender.
Steam, the engine front trucks never touched the joints. First Athearn tracked well and never has a problem in that turn or others. Its tender just pulled like a brick. Second one pulled well but like to tip the wheels, it is the one in the PIC. PCM pulls great but the tender is the problem till a 1/2 hour ago. Draw bar is plactic, stiff and no flex. Packed it all up and will play with it Monday at work. Fact that the tender made it around 30 on my bench gives me a little hope.
Poor trackwork is not worth the time investment needed to get trains to sorta run on it.
Given the numerous issues you’ve documented with so much of your equipment, I think some serious thought should be given to a massive track reconstruction program. It does sound like a project, but track is a model, too. Without good trackwork, even quality models will continue to disappoint.
In particular, I’ve heard that the centipede tender design is sensitive to poor track. It could be that you’ve got some issues with that and other things that could be out of adjustment on the loco, but expectations that a model should be able to deal with your self-admittedly dodgy track are placing too high a burden on the work of others – and not enough on your own.
Given the variety of locomotives you seem to be experiencing problems with I would look inward before blaming the problem of the manufacturer. You’ve admitted in this and other posts that your trackwork is not ‘perfect’. Looking at the first picture reveals a few issues that need to be addressed. For ANY train to run smoothly and reliably good quality trackwork is a must.
The first thing I notice is the lack of roadbed under the track. It looks like the track is laid on top of some kind of grass mat which presumably is on a piece of plywood. The importance of using a roadbed can not be understated, be it cork, homasote, or homabed. After laying the roadbeed it needs to be sanded smooth and level. Small dips and bumps will cause future problems.
Second your power feed wires are soldered with some big clumps. Try using smaller gauge wire and do a neater job of soldering. It could be that the wheels are bouncing off these spots. Avoid soldering wires to the inside of the rail.
Third check the balance of the loco and tender. The loco should be balanced front to rear. You might need to add some weight in the smokebox to put some weight on the lead trucks.
Trackwork is most critical, especially as the size of the loco increases, steam or diesel. As the length and number of axles increase so does the likelihood that it will find the slightest uneveness in the track and derail, especially on a curve. Since the only thing steering a piece of rolling stock or loco trough the curve is the flanges on the wheels, if the outside rail on a curve dips and is lower than the inside curve by more the equivalent height of the wheel flange, the wheel wants to go straight since there is no longer any rail to guide it. On a 2 axle truck this isn’t as bad as a 3 axle truck since now 2 of the 3 axles on bearing the weight of the loco allowing the front axle to be up in the air. When this happens - der
But you didn’t, did you? (Advice given was) " Have Athearn replace the tender wheels**"**
Cuda ‘Call me Nuts’ Ken: 1. You compound your problems 2. You also don’t follow advice.
First (or 2nd) problem:Advice was “GET KATO track” , and (Lately) “Large Lomotives NEED LARGE CURVES” - specifically 36" radius (Kato # 2-290) to 46" - DG
(Boxing Announcer)-OH! There’s a left, and a right, and another left, and an uppercut to the jaw!! This guys taking a beating!!! Oh, the humanity!! Will someone PLEASE throw in the towel for this poor guy!! I can’t stand to watch anymore!![X-)]
Perhaps MoparMan would do well to invest in reading some how-to books and articles to gain an understanding of what works well and things to avoid in model railroading.
Having read many of Ken’s messages I see a tendency for him to create his own problems - sometimes while trying to implement the advice of others, but more commonly by his own unreasonable expectations.
As per this thread, he seems to be wearing out many locomotives. We’ve read about broken gears; probably from pulling excessively heavy trains. He’s returned all of his previous 4-8-8-4s because they won’t stay on his track. And BTW, an AHM model would probably be more appropriate for someone who insists on running a 4-8-8-4 on 18" radius curves.
I’ve read about Ken using sandpaper to clean the track and locomotive wheels. Most people know this is counterproductive because dirt sticks to the tiny scratches. It can also leave a sharp edge on the rail profile. Hey Ken, if you use 320 grit it will put more tooth on the rail so your engines get better traction and can pull even heavier trains.
(Boxing Announcer)-OH! There’s a left, and a right, and another left, and an uppercut to the jaw!! This guys taking a beating!!! Oh, the humanity!! Will someone PLEASE throw in the towel for this poor guy!! I can’t stand to watch anymore!!
But wait, Cuda is back on his feet and he looks PO! Flury of Upper Cuts, there goes a round house to the head! My God a Body Slam and pile driver! Holy Cow Cuda Ken Did It, He Fixed The PCM Big Boy! We have a new MRR on the site, I think he can fix anything! [:D]
OK, first I thank all the people that try to help me. I am to the point I know what is track problem and what is a engine problem. All of the “IT IS HIS BENCH EXPERTS” did you happen to look at the PIC of the tie bar resting on the rear engine counter weight? Do you experts think that might be a problem?
As far as my Tyco Old Dutch Hoppers. They run as well as any Athearn RTR car I have had. All the trucks have been worked, Proto Wheels, NMRA weight standerds, Kadee # 5 and correct height.
My flat bed car problems where gone say 40 hours ago!
As far as lack of road bed, new section has Road Bed and being done as I have been told and read on this great site.
Today I gutted the PCM Big Boy and this is what I found.
1 Rear draw bar has a pin that should fit in a Y shaped grove under the Cab. After I pulled the rear engine I found the tie bar pin was not in the slot. Fixed that and no longer hits the counter weight and moves freely.
2 Flashing on the draw bar. Top and bottom of the draw bar had flashing and well as the C that hooks to the coupler pole in the tender. I sanded the flashing down and lubed the bar in the tender. Think that could cut down on the down
