In the future, I’ll be adding an elevated subway line to my city area, so I’ve been doing my research now. The one thing I have noticed with all the manufacturers of elevated rail and support systems, is that although they all have their pros and cons when it comes to ease of construction, details, materials, etc…, I have yet to find any that show you how to, or for that matter, manufacture a curve. I can scratch build if I have too, but I’d rather not, given my lack of time and some skills. I’ve most recently looked at Micro Engineering’s City Viaduct, and Imagine That’s Chicago El system. That was when I realized there were no curves. I really don’t want to make my “L” disappear into a building just so I can curve the track.
So, if anyone can either show me where the curved sections of elevated track might be, or at least explain to me if there is a way to create a graduated series of curved support girders with what already exists, I’d be grateful. I like puzzles, but this one really has me stumped. And it might just be because I’m not understanding something that would be self-explanatory if I purchased the products.
If I understand your question correctly, you want to know how to build/model a curve in an elevated railway. The structure supporting a curve would essentially be a section of support structure that is wider, but still rectangular, and the curve would be laid across the structure. For example, at an intersection where the EL curves, a square structure would be built over the intersection and the track built across it curving from one street to the other. Wider curves would be built on a structure similar to a curved bridge.
Pretty much. If you look at existing kits, they supply you with, (more or less), 2 steel girders, the cross supports, sometimes legs and lattice. All these components make straight or linear track. In order to go around corners, you would have to place the legs closer on the inside of the turn, and wider on the outside, as if spokes in a wheel. That can be done with what exists. However, the side supports, or girders that are supplied, are straight. They neither curve, or can be curved. What I don’t know is if elevated lines built square “box” over the intersection and then curved the track and ties, (which can be done with what currently exists), or did they actually build curved structures in conjunction with the radius of the turn.
I’m hoping that I’m not over explaining this, considering I have a picture in my head, even if it is in crayon…
Think of two hexagons, octogans or however many sides it takes to get the curve you need. A series of straight lines angled to complete 360 degrees. Use the full length pieces Cut to length necessary) on the outside, shorter pieces for the inside.
Basically, the idea of building an approximation to a curve out of connected straight sections is correct. You have to remember, though, that we modelers use much tighter turns than the prototypes do. So, your curved elevated lines will look much more extreme than the real ones do.
I appreciate all the help. My major concern was that I was about to embark on an adventure in engineering, not realizing that there were commercial products available. So based on what I’ve read, the radius of my curve will be dependent only on the size of my “city” blocks. In other words, if I’ve created a small road surface intersection, my curve will have to be a whole lot tighter to turn 90 degrees. I’ve been studying the NYC and Chicago systems via Google Earth, (one of my favorite tools), and have been trying to use that as a guide.
Thanks again, and I’ll keep figuring it out until I get it right. Paper is easier to fix!!!
Having listened to the flanges scream (NOT a typo) on the curve into the Whitlock Avenue station of the Pelham Bay Line, I’m not so sure about that!
The key fact is that curves on overhead structures are laid on a series of trapezoids. All of the understructure can be drawn with straight lines. Only the rails are curved - all five of them per track.
Five? Yup. Two to run on, two continuous bridge-type guardrails and the third (hot) rail.
A thought about that understructure. If the outermost longitudinal spans are plate girders, the inner support structure can be erected with cut sheet styrene or similar. Painted black, they will be all but invisible under the timber and planking above them. If the outer spans are trusses, all bets are off…
I presume you mean “New York City”, because the New York Central ceased to exist about 40 years before Google Earth came to be.
Having been (many times) on the NYC’s former tracks which run above street level in Northern Manhattan, I can tell you the supports are, in fact composed of short straight (ok, trapezoidal in the top view) segments. So are the former New Haven tracks on the aqueduct leading to / from the Hells Gate Bridge. In fact, if you look at the Google Earth photo of the Hell Gate Bridge in the center of the park on Ward’s Island, just to the North of the bridge, you can see that each of the supporting segments are straight between pairs trestles. The curved catwalk and trackwork on top gives the illusion of curvature, but they are straight.
Just took a look at the Whitlock Avenue curve - it would scale out to about 36 inch radius in HO.
The curve where the White Plains Road line leaves Westchester Avenue for Boston Road appears even sharper - about 24 inch radius. It is, literally, a street corner, barely clearing the building on the northwest corner of the intersection.
Both the ex-NYC and ex-New Haven viaducts referenced above are Class 1 standard. The old IRT curves are buttonhooks by comparison.
Chuck (ex-New Yorker modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
My daughter lives in Chicago not far from a curve on the EL. Google Earth 1812 w cornelia ave at street level and pan around. From above the EL turns and goes over the Metra at Ravenwood.
Sorry if that wasn’t clear. My screen name is a play on both, the New York Central and New York City. I was born in Queens and in 1974, my Mom re-married and we moved to the Lake George/Adirondacks region. My Grandmother lived in a 3rd floor apartment at the intersection of Madison Street and Fresh Pond Road, about half a block west of the Fresh Pond Station, so I have many memories of traveling the city with her via that station, which is why I’d like to replicate, (albeit loosely), that area.
I have been studying the Chicago “El”, and the NY elevated in an attempt to figure this out. I have not forgotten about the NY Central’s “High Line”, and have been zooming to street level in order to look up at the support structures of all three. I even “Google Earth-walked” the High Line Elevated Park to get some ideas.
My main purpose in starting this thread was to illicit some ideas from those who may model subways or have a working knowledge of their support system. As near I can tell with my limited resources, they seem to curve, as someone previously stated, much as a curved bridge. Right now I want to start the planning phase, before I start building the footprint of my city, this way I’m not tearing things up in an effort to correct it.
Thanks to all for your help and continuing pointers.
Have you tried Imagine That Laser Art? They have a Chicago L, and in the top picture of their website it looks like they have an elevated curve. Just a thought.
Chicago-tyle “el” details can be readily seen with Eric Bronsky’s respected traction modeling efforts, and the historical chicago-L.org which is the largest source of “el” on the internet.