I just read where Davis Trains in Ohio was going to close up this summer. Surprised at this since I had always been under the impression they were a really good shop and had a really great repair department. Anyone able to add any light on this or verify it for sure. Thanks
Steve from Ross is a reliable source.
Must be true!
My son is in retail and meets with many different people. They have ALL been saying that sales and services are at a snails pace. If you listen to our government everything is great !!! What is one to believe???
Disney who follows the trends has leased all thier Disney stores to the Childrens Place who in turn retained the Disney name as directed.
Disney is putting all thier efforts in INTERNET sales and have expanded thier product selection on line…
Maybe this is what the big two are thinking. Internet and Big Box stores is the future…
Sorry to hear about the closing of another store…
[:(]
You read comments from many who feel this is now the golden age of three rail trains. From a consumer standpoint of selection and options, it probably is. But from a dealer standpoint, it’s another story entirely.
There was another thread here about MTH where Geno made a comment that he would buy MTH products on the west coast but that no one would come down in price. It’s not that they won’t come down in price… it’s that they can’t come down in price. Smaller train dealers have been feeling the pinch for years now. I can tell you truthfully from being involved directly in the retail end of the hobby that wholesale margins are tight and often poor. There’s little room for discounting by smaller local dealers. The minimum orders also make it hard and a bit of a guessing game for small dealers as to what they can actually sell.
Meanwhile the bigger mailorder places get the attractive wholesale prices and are in a better position to do deeper discounts. We, the customers want those discounts and wonder why the little guys can’t match the prices of the bigger mailorder places. I’ve actually been in smaller shops and listened to customers tell shop owners that they bought such and such an item mailorder at a better price: talk about adding insult to injury. If you were that dealer who was listening to customers tell you they just bought the train item you have in stock from someone else for a lower price, how willing would you be to keep stocking those very items? Probably not too excited.
There was recently a lengthy thread on OGR concerning a letter from Davis Trains about the backlog of service and the poor availability of parts, which got a lot of attention and postings. While some train buyers love the high end electronically loaded trains, I can see how they are a nightmare for the small dealers who have the perceived responsibility of service. A lot of dealers simply cannot fix them, and the few that do are very very b
Whatsa local dealer? [:D] Closest dealer to me is an all day drive to Albuquerque.
This whole thing about lamenting the demise of Mom and Pop dealers reminds me of the complaints about local stores going under because of Wallyworld. It’s all part of free enterprise, survival of the fittest, etc. The “good ol” days are long gone. You can wax nostalgic all you want about having local train stores and how nice the owners are. But just like the “Made in USA” on the side of the Lionel boxes, small Lionel dealers are all but history. Personally, I don’t really miss them. Heck…I have none and I don’t think the town I live in ever did have one. Maybe we’llall learn to fix these modern electronic gadgets instead of just sending them in for repair [tup]
Dep
Dep,
What ever you do don’t make a wrong turn when you get there… you never know where you will end up when you make a wrong turn in Albuquerque!
its always sad to hear a about any type of hobby store closing…
when i was stationed in ft beening there was a hobby shop i went to alot…then one day it was gone…
i think internet is to blame for some of this but also i think interest changes too…and everyone is so busy now a days its easier to go online to buy…
since not working i have noticed how fast life is passing by…i think the world need s to go in slo mo for a lil bit…regroup…[2c]
I am really sad to hear this…Davis trains is the only decent sized train store anywhere near me. I would also go so far as to say that they’re one of the top shops in the country.
Sad to hear. While I have never purchased from Davis, I have never heard anything bad about them. I grew up in a town with a train store. They had lots of older items as well as new in the box. Typical of the era, the shelves were stacked floor to ceiling with boxes and the layout was covered with repair projects, to be uncovered and run on Saturdays at 10am. That store is long gone. The thing about a train store like that, they can foster a growing desire in a young heart to trains. Where so many parents don’t have time to spend with the kids doing the train thing, it would be great for the future of the hobby if small stores were around in towns, a place where kids could go and learn about the hobby with other friends, mom, whomever. I wish we had a store near us, but the closest is better than 3 hours away. It is much much more than buying the trains, it is learning, sharing, and growing in a wonderful hobby. I don’t think you get as much surfing on a computer. While the information shared here is great, it is another thing to have the item in front of you, to talk face to face with someone about the train.
God Bless,
Dennis
like i said dennis ppl’s lives just seem to be on fast forward anymore…my dad use to play trains with me when i was little …we’d get on the garage floor with our trains and just have a grand ole time…oh the times i miss that
and i agree nothing beats handleing or seeing an item in person…but times are changing sadly
Well Deputy, you need to haul up and move to the northeast. That’s where the majority of train enthusiasts have always been and still are. Historically the northeast US had more railroads than anywhere else in the country (and some of the biggest most important too), and most of the train magazine subscriptions are generated from the northeast US. I’ve always had a Lionel dealer within 30 minutes or less of where I live. Some better than others, but there’s always been a train shop. And I’ve been good friends with a few of those dealers and socialized with them. Not to mention being a good customer. Nothing beats being able to actually see what you are buying… you don’t know what you’re missing! It’s great to shoot the breeze with the local shop owner and stick around for a beer after he locks up.
The internet may be his prices, but there are some things you can’t put a price on. A good friend in a shop owner and human interaction are a couple of them.
Eastablished train buyers are more savy and comfortable with the internet. Inexperienced buyers and newcomers may not be so. This is where the benefit of a local shop comes in very handy. But as you say, the world is changing. In my area, now that Wal-Mart has helped contribute to some local businesses going under, the local Wal-Mart is drastically cutting back inventory and is no longer stocking some of the items they initially carried… items I was also once able to get elsewhere locally, and now can’t find at all.
That may be the way it is with “free enterprise” and all, but it doesn’t necessarily make it better. And good luck with hoping for folks to be able to fix their high end trains on their own. Lionel and MTH have been pretty picky on who they want to know how to fix their electronics for fear of folks stealing their technology. And even the few dealers who do these repairs are unable to get parts. I highly doubt the average Joe working in his garage or basement is going to be able
Brian: Actually, I recently moved from the RAIL HUB OF THE US…Chicago. So the eastern folks didn’t have any big advantage over me [:D]
I had more than a few local train stores there. I patronized them, but I also bought from mail order. This was back in the 80s before Al Gore invented the internet and figured out the planet was melting [(-D] No way I will move again. The negatives outweigh the positives as far as the MidWest and East and the big cities. ALL my purchases are through magazine ads or online now. I’ve done a few minor repairs on postwar locos. Yes, they are user friendly and relatively easy to fix. But I don’t think the new trains are going to require an electronics degree to repair either. I put together the computer I am using right now. Who woulda thought back in the 80s or earlier that the average Joe with no college degree or even training in computer repair could do so. And when it has a problem, I actually DO fix it. The stuff happening inside Proto 2 or TMCC locos isn’t some kind of voodoo magic. People have to WANT to fix the stuff and want to learn how and then they will be able to. At the very least, they should be able to trouble shoot it and find out where the problem lies. And if all the repair facilities go belly up, I guarantee there will be folks who DO want to repair them or learn how. I’m surprised there aren’t any books already written explaining the functions of Proto 2 and TMCC circuitry. Maybe because people still can send them in the be fixed, there isn’t that much demand. And if Lionel or MTH doesn’t want to sell the parts to fix something, you can bet there will be a hue and cry go up from the public. Or even better, someone will come out with replacement parts that do the same thing for less. As it is right now there are plenty of aftermarket sound and TMCC parts that are available for install.
Will the average Joe miss the experiences you desc
[quote user=“Deputy”]
Brian: Actually, I recently moved from the RAIL HUB OF THE US…Chicago. So the eastern folks didn’t have any big advantage over me [:D]
I had more than a few local train stores there. I patronized them, but I also bought from mail order. This was back in the 80s before Al Gore invented the internet and figured out the planet was melting [(-D] No way I will move again. The negatives outweigh the positives as far as the MidWest and East and the big cities. ALL my purchases are through magazine ads or online now. I’ve done a few minor repairs on postwar locos. Yes, they are user friendly and relatively easy to fix. But I don’t think the new trains are going to require an electronics degree to repair either. I put together the computer I am using right now. Who woulda thought back in the 80s or earlier that the average Joe with no college degree or even training in computer repair could do so. And when it has a problem, I actually DO fix it. The stuff happening inside Proto 2 or TMCC locos isn’t some kind of voodoo magic. People have to WANT to fix the stuff and want to learn how and then they will be able to. At the very least, they should be able to trouble shoot it and find out where the problem lies. And if all the repair facilities go belly up, I guarantee there will be folks who DO want to repair them or learn how. I’m surprised there aren’t any books already written explaining the functions of Proto 2 and TMCC circuitry. Maybe because people still can send them in the be fixed, there isn’t that much demand. And if Lionel or MTH doesn’t want to sell the parts to fix something, you can bet there will be a hue and cry go up from the public. Or even better, someone will come out with replacement parts that do the same thing for less. As it is right now there are plenty of aftermarket sound and TMCC parts that are available for install.
Will the average Joe miss the
LOL…they just need to do like Big Al and buy more carbon credits. [(-D]
OK, Deputy you nailed me. According to a recent excellent issue of Trains Magazine Chicago was the number one city for train watching and Illinois the number one state, though NYS ranked right up there at the top too.
I’m impressed with what you say that you do your own repairs on higher end trains. Though I agree with your sarcasm that it isn’t voodoo magic, I think there are a good many folks who are intimated by the circuit boards and electronics. That there isn’t some kind of repair manual on DCS and TMCC may be due in part to the mistrust, competition and the adversarial relationship between those two companies. Since they both invested millions of dollars into their own respective systems, they don’t want to make it any easier for folks to figure it out, or worse yet, use their own respective technologies for a new system. As much as it might be desired by some, I think it’s unlikely we’ll see any authorized repair manuals on these electronics from either company. They have a hard time providing their own authorized dealers with parts, nevermind anyone else.
Regardless of that, it’s pretty amazing that the folks at the OGR Forum, not even being involved with the engineering of the system, were able to offer solutions and changes to help MTH to work out the bugs that were initially in the DCS system. MTH publically thanked those folks. So while some may be obviously comfortable with the electronics, I’m sure a good many others would be clueless.
“And if Lionel or MTH doesn’t want to sell the parts to fix something, you can bet there will be a hue and cry go up from the public.” Actually Deputy, I think this topic of bad service, lack of parts and lengthy waits for service of high end items has already been (and currently is) one of the most vocal criticisms of these two train companies. It gets discussed quite heatedly on the other train forums, and I know it gets brought to the attention of the train com
I know it’s sad when a trusted and loved retailer disappears, but I believe that one virtue of the capitalist entrepreneurial system is that if there is a demand for services, someone will likely step in to fill that need.
And in life, nothing stays the same, everything changes eventually. I know I’d be sad if our great local shop closed, but some day the guy who owns it will retire, get tired and/or ill, and it will happen in all likelihood. Of course, with bad luck, I won’t be around to see that day. So enjoy the day you’ve been given is my philosophy on these things, all things pass.
I never bought from Davis, but unfortunately they are but another store that fell victim to the retail and warranty system set in place by the big train importers. It’s a mystery to me what the model train companies hope to gain by killing off the smaller Mom-and-Pop outfits that have sold trains and fostered the hobby for generations-but it has definitely affected the customer in a negative way in terms of customer service.
If this trend continues only the stronger selling small stores and the larger mail order outfits will remain. Will these fewer stores be able to handle increased volume of repairs, or will the ‘factory’ service departments do it? It seems to me that both are already at their maximum capabilities.
Geno
On several occasions I have had the pleasure of talking with Mr. Joe Davis. One great train guy with one great store. Since I build the real thing from time to time, he was very interested in one of my projects where we built the new railroad bridge for the CSX using top down construction. Recently, he and I would get into comparing ailments and needless to say his health wasn’t all that great.
The closing of this store does not only affect the O gauge hobbyist, but they carry all the scales. The G scale department is great. Dixie Union Station in Mason has started to come into its own and will fill part of the void left by one great store with some of the greatest people in the hobby.
I want to thank Davis Trains for the great service and hospitality they have shown Mrs. Buckeye and me over the last ten years. Without their advice I would still be trying to learn how to run my TMCC and would have most likely burned down a couple houses.
[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup] for Davis Trains.
Brian: What folks who rave about the longevity and ease of repair of the old units always seem to forget, is that the new locos are MUCH more complex and much more versatile than the old ones. I think the best comparison of trains with other objects isn’t DVD players. I think a better comparison is the Corvette of the late 1960s/early 70s with the Corvette of 1997 and up. I have a 1972 Vette, and while it is a bit of PITA to work on, it doesn’t have all the fancy electronic gizmos that the new ones have. But there are plenty of folks that work on the new Vettes and do so succesfully. I think what might happen is if MTH and Lionel doesn’t supply the knowledge base to repair their locos, it will come from the owners or some other source.
If you are FORCED to do something, you’d be surprised how ingeneous you can become. [;)]
Like Neil says…if there’s a demand, SOMEONE will step in to fill it. It may be a chain of shops or a single big shop that does repairs, or it may be a book that gives intricate details on how to do it. If there’s a dollar to be made in doing it, it WILL happen [tup]
Dep