With benchwork just starting to go up and a trackplan in my head and in most part on paper the crossroad is here. While some of my motive power is DCC ready most is not. None of the brass locos which are ran from time to time are and none of my favorates from the past are do I bite the bullet now and buy into it or continue on as in the past. I must say wiring all the blocks, siding tracks and spurs would be much easier to forgo at this point. While its an expense now ignorance and inexperience might win out at this point. The not so local hobby shop I have found in this area has not been much help so far in this regard. Lone Star Trains in San Antonio is an almost an hour south of me but there is little on display and the choices are limited. Any suggestions on the best way to proceed would be appreciated. How much would I need to spend to get this off the ground and equip say fifteen or twenty locos to start with ??
jag,
If it were me, I’d bite the bullet. DCC is just so much more fun and realistic to operate than running DC that’s it’s a no-brainer - for me. You are wise to consider the whole picture; what things you both gain and inherit with a new technology.
Cost for decoders: $12-25 (non-sound) - Depends on number of lighting functions you want.
Cost for DCC system: Depends
- How many locomotives are you wanting to run at one time?
- How many operators?
- How big of a layout will you be building?
- Will you be expanding in the future?
- Will you eventually want to go sound?
These are just a few of the important questions to answer before discussing price and capability of a DCC system. You’re asking questions though. That’s the important thing. [:)][tup]
Tom
I’ll second Tom’s recommendation. DCC is just so much better that I can’t even think of going back to DC. I’ve got a relatively small layout, 5x12 feet, and it just wouldn’t be practical to block it for DC use. DCC, on the other hand, give me full independent control of each engine, plus the ability to “MU” multiple engines and run them as one.
Installing DCC in a truly “DCC-Ready” loco is as simple as removing a jumper card and plugging in the decoder. The hardest part is getting the shell off. (DCC-Ready, unfortunately, means different things to different manufacturers.) Equipping an older locomotive might mean electrically isolating the motor, and then soldering (typically) 7 wires: 2 to track power, 2 to the motor, 1 each to the front and rear headlights, and 1 headlight common. If you’re handy with a soldering iron, give yourself about an hour for the first few, and less after that as you gain experience.
Before you buy a decoder, though, listen to a sound locomotive, either at a shop, show, club or online. The addition of sound adds so much to the overall effect that many of us seldom run our non-sound engines anymore. You don’t have to run sound, of course, and you can mix and match as much as you want, but you might not want to equip your whole fleet with non-sound decoders only to turn around and want to replace them with sound later.
“Biting the bullet” makes it sound like this is some horrible thing you must do. If you go to block control now and plan on changing over in the future, you will incur the full cost in both time and money of both systems. Not only that you will not get the benefits of the DCC until later.
Why does everyone think DCC requires experience? It is way easier than DC ever was. Hook two wires to the track program the locomotives and run the trains. All this talk of bus, and wire gauge, DCC friendly turnouts, and blah de blah is usually way over kill and obfuscates the simplicity of the system.
I would say about $500. But nothing says you have to buy it all at once. Decoders for the locomotives are cheaper when purchased in bulk. I just got a pack of five NCEs for $60. I buy them when they go on sale. With 15-20 locomotives some of them can wait for the sales.
Tom, if I can add to that list…
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Are you going to be joining a club or group? If so, which system to they use?
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What support do you have for your particular system? Does your LHS carry a full range of components or just the starter sets?
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Is a computer connection important to you (to get the most out of your decoders)?
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Which system feels best in your hands?
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Do you want to run DC locos on the layout as well?
Just some more questions to ponder.
David B
David,
Absolutely. Be my guest. Good additional questions indeed to consider and ponder. That’s why I specified it as “just a few of the important questions”.
Tom
When I first got into trains five years ago I went with DCC and never looked back. The reason I did was that back then it was the wave of the future. Everything is so much simpler with DCC then with a DC block set up.
Even if your local hobby shops can’t help, you can get an internet hobby shop for DCC. I recommend Litchfield Station, www.litchfieldstation.com. Bruce is very willing to answer email, and he and his wife, Linda, offer outstanding service.
Quite a few years ago, I had a layout. All divided into blocks and wired for two cabs. As far as I remember, I rarely ran two at a time. It just seemed difficult at the time.
A few months back, I finally got a chance to start fresh after 20+ years. I read about DCC and checked out some of the sound available. Bought a starter set before I ever had a piece of track layed. It’s just so much more fun to be able to punch in a loco number and run it. You don’t care where it is on the track, you just run it. Oh, I want to let that one go and run another, punch in another number and there’s 2 under full control just by hitting a button or two.
And the addition of sound and lighting effects makes it lots more fun too. Not to mention custom tailoring the speed characteristics of any loco you care to. Just so many plusses in my mind, helps make the choice a little easier.
Just for information, I am starting out (again) with a U-shape about twelve feet on each end of the U and sixteen feet accross the base. It in essence is a double dogbone with a medium size yard, a logging shortline and as many local industries as I care to squeeze in. My interest is in the running aspect. I have access to the entire room which is sixteen by fourty. But based on past experience the larger the layout the more maintainance is required. I can start here and expand later. I currently own twenty to thirty locos and uncounted rolling stock. Much of which has been stored for many years.
Just having moved to the area (about 30 miles north of San Antonio, Texas.) I am not yet acquainted with any clubs or modelers as of yet. The LHS left me with mixed feelings but if I can get this started as was stated in a previous post for $500.00. Though I do believe I would be more inclined to hire atleast the first conversion or atleast some of the trickier ones done. I am at the place where I now have to decide very soon which unit will suit my needs and which of the decoders are the best value. If my LHS cannot supply my needs there is mail order, the internet and eBay. I will concede when I stopped and purchased thirty six switches and a hundred feet of flex track he was genuinly thankful for the sale. He gave me a bit of a discount and I had enough to get me started again.
When I got back into HO 3 years ago, I avoided DCC. My biggest mistake. Now I have it with radio and love it. As to the brass problem:
1, I was able to put a sound decoder and speaker into one. It was easy. The others will get it eventually.
- Until the others get decoders the only limitation is I can only run one at a time and they have to sit on a dead track when not the engine of choice. A SPST switch does that.
GO FOR DCC
The most recent issue of the Layout Design Special Interest Group Journal had an article by a member who had just torn out his old layout and was starting over.
The article listed his learnings and what he was going to do different this time.
STARTING OVER RIGHT THIS TIME
Near the top of his list was to go DCC this time. He said he went straight DC before, thinking it would be simpler and he would save money.
He said he was wrong on both counts.
The complexity and cost of all the toggles and wiring to run multiple trains was not insignificant, and worse yet – it would take him (no joke) all evening to explain to someone how to just run a train around the layout – and even then they would get confused and screw up. There’s a high-tech facility nearby, and many of his operators were atomic engineers – and it still took them all night to figure out how to just run a simple train around the layout.
He said not going with DCC to start with was one of his single biggest mistakes!
NEWCOMERS USING DCC ON MY OWN LAYOUT
I can tell you from personal experience, he’s right on target. With my HO Siskiyou Line, which is a larger basement-sized layout, I just hand a newcomer one of my NCE wireless engineer throttles and then give them the instructions:
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Press select loco.
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Type in the loco number on the cab.
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Press enter.
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Have fun running your train!
Of course, the newcomers are paired with an experienced conductor and they have to go when the conductor says go and stop when the conductor says stop (and the conductor gets his instructions from the dispatcher), but that’s not at all hard.
DCC IS SIMPLER!
The point is, with DCC, you just dial up your loco and go! It doesn’t get much simpler than that. [swg]
I operated for three months on my very first layout using a simple MRC power supply. I had wired my main loop and one spiral spur with a total of three feeder sets off a 10’ bus. There were no toggles, no blocks that required them…just a bus and three pairs of feeders more or less equidistant around my track plan. One day I decided I wanted two engines. Problem was, if I wanted one to run around the track, the other would have to at the same time. Suddenly my BLI engines with decoders were just another DC blocking problem.
I decided one day to order a DCC system. When it came, I removed the two leads at the terminals of the MRC and installed them on the two terminals of the DB150 from Digitrax. I was in business as fast as I could make one of my two engines respond to an address other than “03”, which all decoders default to as soon as they get DCC signal and without prior programming. Needless to say, with ten minutes of reading and addressing one engine, I was running one of them while the other waited patiently for a command. It would have been impossible just 15 minutes earlier with my layout wired as one big block.
DCC is as simple as that for most of us. For bigger layouts with heavier demands for power, it makes sense to break the track plan into power districts. That will become clear and easy to comprehend with about 20 minutes of online reading at a place like Tony’s Train Exchange.
Having had the pleasure of attending a Siskiyou Line operating session on Joe’s layout last October, I can vouch for this. It was easier that falling off a log, and you could concentrate on operating the train. There in no question that DCC is simpler, and I am not convinced that is nearly as much more expensive as some make it out to be. And the benefits are HUGE!
I just came accross this unit. Bachmann E-Z Command Dynamis Wireless DCC 36505 Control. He wants $175. for the unit and decoders are available at three for forty five dollars. Then I woulod also need atleast one handheld unit as well would I not? This is startint to get interesting,. I had looked at a MRC unit as well but there is a huge difference in cost. Now while cost is not aq deciding factor is certainly is a consideration. Anybody familiar with this set up?
I would avoid it for now.
If that is your price point, you will be happier with an Zephyr or a Power Cab. Both have been on the market and are time proven. Also, both have many components to choose from if you want to expand, the Dynamis on the other hand, does not.
In terms of decoders, avoid MRC and please dont buy the Bachmann elcheapos, they are quite limited and dont have some features that you want in DCC (speed table for one).
David B
Hey, Jeff, that’s right!
You can hear Jeff offscreen in this video report from the October op session, and if you look closely at the end of this video clip, the guy in the “yellow” shirt center screen in the lower deck area is none other than Jeff!
Jeff, since your visit, the super-duper NCE wireless upgrade has made using the wireless NCE throttles every bit as good as being plugged in … wireless and DCC – running trains doesn’t get much better!
jag,
I would agree with David and hold off on the Dynamis for now.
The Bachmann Dynamis, although released last year in Europe, is brand new to the US market. Bachmann first came out with their E-Z Command DCC system a few years back. Even though it’s a decent system, it is limited in what it can do. The new Bachmann Dynamis will probably be a very nice DCC system that will be able to adjust and tweak CVs that it’s smaller brother, the E-Z Command, can’t do.
I would agree. The Digitrax Zephyr and the NCE Power Cab can be had for less and are proven systems. I would look at these first.
My [2c]…
Tom
Well I guess I did it. I ordered an NCE Power Cab. Since my LHS did not deal with this I just read the info available on the net and in the long run this might not really cost any more than having to buy dozens of DPDT switches and many, many feet of wire. Now that the basic unit is on its way what else am I going to need ?
Good choice, jag! [^][tup] I’ve had my Power Cab for over 2 years and have been very happy with it.
Well, while you wait for your Power Cab to show up in the mail, you could read up on DCC and wiring. If you haven’t read it already, here’s a good primer on DCC from Tony’s Train Exchange web site:
You can either read it online or download it onto your computer as a .pdf file. If you are more knowledgable and comfortable about electricity, Allen Gartner’s Wiring for DCC web site is terrific, too.
Joe Fugate also has a very nice DVD called Vol. 3: Electrical and control secrets that gives some handy pointers about how to wire you layout up for DCC, troubleshooting with terminal strips, using Decoder Pro to speed match locomotives, and short management - just to name a few.
Tom