By the 50 pair bulk pack, it will save a little and think about it… and extra $1.50 on top of the $200 loco or $20-$35 piece of rolling stock is well spent. Nothing is worse than having the nice long train come part due to a cheap coupler at the most hard to reach place.
Again,The ProtoMax is exactly like the KD #5 and 148 and will not come uncoupled like the cheaper all plastic clones.
The ProtoMax is all metal with a brass knuckle spring just like the KD.
I do know the couplers are a exact match and the springs are the same.I been using the Protomax along with my KD 5 and 148s with zero problems.
As it now stands we have a choice of excellent couplers- the KD or the Protomax.
Either coupler will give trouble free operation.
KD is no longer the only choice in town and I suspect those that still thinks KD only has never seen or used the protomax coupler.
I am a sworn KD user and will replace anything that comes attached to any car or loco with a KD. I have never had a failure of any kind and some of mine have been in use for 20+ years. The only thing I wish is that I would discover that black hole that holds all those little coupler springs which I have managed to launch over the years. [:D]
Yeah but what doe the ProtoMax buy me? It’s not any cheaper. Is it made in the USA? If I should buy a recent P2K loco that comes with them, perhaps I would just leave them on, but when buying bulk couplers to repalce allt he palstic junk ones, or install in kits that either come with no couplers or, as is oftent he case with what I model, are older kits that only come withhorn-hooks, I see no reason to buy ProtoMax over Kadee. Being 'good enough" at the same price point doesn’t cut it.
As for Kadees without the springs - actually, on my return after a few year’s hiatus from the hobby, I was very surprised to find that most of the couplers in the bulk packs I bought had the spring already on. I was used to the way is was before - the couplers came sans spring, with a little capsule containg said springs, to be isntalled by ye intrepid modeler. Quickly developed the skill of using the hobby knife blade to pick them up and slip them over the pegs, withotu losing too many. I find an odd one or two in a 25 pair pack that is missing the spring, but no big deal.
–Randy
i agree which is why the Staten Island West has embarked on a coupler standardization program in the Stapleton Yard but it takes miney and time. I use Kadee 148 whisker. But if i were starting out would the proto be more economical everything else being equal?
I would use both like I’m doing now even though I prefer the ease of installing the 148s.
All I am saying we now have a choice-KD or the Protomax…
The KD followers may not like the news but,well,here it is.
The Protomax is just as good has the KD.
The choice is up to the modeler.
Randy,I repeat…I have notice couplers missing springs straight from the package.I found 3 so far in my last 20 pack.This isn’t the first time in the past 5O years I been using KDs it just seems to be more often lately…I suspect the next batch will have missing springs as well and I suspect that’s why KD includes a small tube of springs.I find it aggravating more then anything.
I find its easier for me to use the small end of a tooth pick to replace springs then using a sharp modeling knife for what it was never intended.
OK Ken - yes, you are right about the springs!
Randy - I did a quick search re prices Kadee vs Proto Max:
Walthers current prices for #5s and Proto Max standard couplers:
Kadee 2 pair without boxes - Reg $4.05, on sale for $3.69
Kadee 20 pair without boxes - Reg $27.95, on sale for $24.98
Proto Max 4 pair with boxes - Reg $6.98, on sale for $3.98
Proto Max 20 pair with boxes - Reg $24.98, on sale for $16.98
Walthers is obviously a little biased towards their own brand but if they are as reliable and you need to buy a lot then Proto Max may be the way to go. Only time will tell if they are actually comparable in reliability.
I automatically convert everything to Kadees, and I still have a good supply of #5s so I won’t be in need of couplers for a while. If and when I buy more they will be whisker spring types which for now at least makes the price comparison moot for me.
Dave
Forget about toothpicks and modeling knives. Why don’t you guys use the Kadee tool to replace missing springs. It is foolproof.
Rich
In the original post I wasn’t asking about buying Kadee clones, my concern was about replacing clones that came with cars that I bought. If it looks just like a Kadee #5, how do I tell if I should replace it?
Grinnell
When a company, or user, claims that their couplers are as good as Kadees, why would I use anything other than the industry standard? It’s Kadee or NO-dee for me.
You will know when it breaks.
Hi GRINNELL! Thank you for your patience with all of us opinionated SOB’s geriatric basket cases!
Sorry, but we all seemed to have missed the point of your original question. You have to recognize that the Kadee vs others debate brings out very strong emotions which we tend to want to express instead of paying attention to your original question.
To answer your question - if the clones are metal with metal springs then you can likely go with them. If you are not sure what they are made of, take an Exacto blade or a file and test them.
The whole thing boils down to the strength of the couplers. Plastic flexes and stretches. Metal does not. When you get to the point where you want to see how many cars your consist can pull (and rest assured you will - just because its fun) if there are any plastic couplers in the train you will likely find out the hard way!
If in doubt, Kadee rules!
Dave
Gidday Grinnell, I wouldn’t replace it unless the coupler proves to be unreliable or fails, then I would replace it with a Kadee.
But then I’m a cheapskate. [:)][;)]
Cheers, the Bear.
Here’s my method.
If its a plastic coupler its replaced if its all metal its used.
Some cars come equipped with KD…
The newer Walthers comes equipped with the ProtoMax.Their early releases has plastic couplers.
The couplers that Athearn,Atlas and Bachmann uses needs replace since they are plastic.
Does that help?
Special tool? Like Alton Brown in the kitchen, no single taskers. The knife method is old and tried and true, and pretty foolproof. Don’t even have to pick up the springs, just stab one with the knife between the coils in the middle, push on one nub, then tilt onto second nub. I don’t use the assembly fixture for #5’s, either [:D] My third hand can hold the box together while aligning it to the model and inserting the screw. Well ok, lately I’ve only been buying the whisker couplers for new installs, MUCH easier to deal with, one less part to try and keep in place.
–Randy
KD’s tool for the springs is called the “Spring Pic”. They do hold on to the spring better than a knife blade, I have a couple, but I grab whatever is handiest
Larry: I don’t deny that the protomax coupler is an excellent choice. My reason though for staying with Kadee is the large number of cars I have accumulated over the past years, and to convert to protomax would break the bank. I am happy with Kadee and will probably be buried with a kadee in my hand.
Bob
HOn30critter
Finally, a workable answer: get out a file and see if it is metal. It’s obvious, now that you’ve said it (after 830 page views of this thread). [:)]
Thanks
Grinnell
Bob,I’m not saying to change out couplers from KD to Protomax…All I am saying is we have a choice of solid working couplers.
BTW…No way would I change out my KD couplers to Protomax only since my KD and Protomax plays very well together and there’s no need-just change out the junky plastic couplers.
Instead of a file I like the old bend 'em method.
The plastic coupler is easy to bend.[:O]