I had an interesting conversation this weekend with the owner of my LHS concerning the popularity of ready-to-roll freight cars. I am on a pretty strict hobby budget, so my attitude has always been that I can get the most fun out of my few dollars by assembling kits. The recent proliferation of ready-to-roll has been frustrating to me, because of the higher prices I pay for letting someone else (in China) have all the fun of assembling the kit. From that perspective, I have believed that ready-to-roll would actually dampen the demand for these cars and would force the manufacturers to re-think their strategies.
So I asked the shop owner if there truly is a greater demand for r-t-r. He pointed to the Branchline boxcar kits on his shelf to remind me that these were the same kits that were on his shelf four years ago, when I walked into his shop for the first time. Then he explained how the r-t-r cars have been flying off his shelves. He also pointed out that the cost per r-t-r car is only a few dollars more than the same car in kit form, and that after metal wheelsets and knuckle couplers (usually standard items on the r-t-r) are added to the cost of the kit, the r-t-r may even prove to be cheaper. He reminded me of the many efficiencies in the kit assembly process that keep the costs low (which of course, for good or bad, has a lot to do with labor rates in China). And, he said that many of his customers that purchase r-t-r see it as a way to free up time from kit assembly to make faster progress on their layouts.
I’m not sure I plan to run right out and buy a layout full of r-t-r cars, but I definetly gained a new perspective from this discussion.
I model primarily passenger equipment, but my thoughts may be true for freight cars as well. I find that if I want true to prototype passenger cars, I am going to be assembling kits, or will build one passenger car from parts produced by several different manufacturers. I really enjoy this aspect of the hobby, and find great satisfaction once I complete a car and get it on the rails. Undec kits are especially nice because you can detail the cars without having to worry about adding details on a painted car. I also find it very fun and educational researching the prototype that I am modeling.
This of course is a perspective of someone who enjoys building rolling stock. Some may find greater satisfaction in scenery and layout building and don’t have the desire to fool around with kits.
One other difference is many of the RTR are far more complex paint and lettering than the old kits. A lot of the Athearn RTR were cars that had been done by Bevbel originally at significantly higher prices. Some kits like Intermountain are complex and not everyone has the talent to build one.
I forgot all about that. Above talent, some folks may not have the eyes, hands or patience to deal with some kits. I love Tichy kits, but they can be a pain in the behind.
Whatever the reason, I STILL prefer the kits over the RTR versions and only buy the latter if I absolutely have to. I do agree with Tom. I get more satisfaction (AND an education!) by putting together the kits myself. (When I say “education” I mean I learn more about the prototype that way.)
I hope it doesn’t come to a point where finding ANY kits for MRRing is about as easy as finding hens teeth. (And even then, they’ll probably be RTR. [:(])
I guess you could go about putting together a freight car much in the same way I do a lot of my passenger cars. I sometimes start out with nothing more than car sides (brass or plastic), and purchase all the parts and materials I need from various manufacturers. From doing this, I have seen there are a lot of parts out there for freight cars as well. I may have parts from 7 or 8 manufacturers by the time all is said and done. That isn’t including paint or decals. My work bench, although organized, looks like a parts bin.
I generally try to avoid r-t-r but on occasion I have found them to be quite useful. Yes it does free up time to work on the layout, but I do find that miss sitting down with my wife and while she reads or watchs TV I would be working on a car kit. Of course that was before she decided that she wanted her circus train and fell in love with the Circus Craft kits. Ahh the joys of toothpick art. Of course there is the notion that IF the kit is prototypical and IS correct, could you do it for the same price. The Athearn cars you might not be able to (assuming it’s correct for you) but with the Kadee cars, my guess is that you could come close, but if you can do it for close to the price why not just buy it instead and save yourself the time.
Csmith is right about the skill level of the some of the kits. I don’t mind Athearn, Roundhouse and some Walthers kits, and in all honesty I may gripe about the Circus Craft kits, but those are for my wife who supports this addiction…so do those really count?, but the several Bel-biv and Branchline kits I have built have been like pulling teeth. Maybe putting more of them together would relieve that feeling, but right now it sorta feels masocistic. If those Branchline reefers came in r-t-r I know I would spend money on those just because they are such a pain.
I think I own 5 R to R freight cars and most of these were some Atlas R to R’s that were being sold by a liquidator for $5 each. All the rest of my roster are kits. The apparent gentle demise of the kit is very sad IMO. Fortunately for now I still can get what I want. To me this is an important part of the hobby. With R to R locos, freight cars, structures, trees, track etc it is almost possible to be a model railroader without actually modeling anything!
But seriously…Tichy, Red Caboose, Intermountain, Branchline – they’re far from ‘that bad’ in that they’re prototypically close and the parts fit. And they’re reasonably priced, although Red Caboose and Intermountain, when their kits are available, are creeping upward. The only challenge is waiting for the glue to dry. Of course, with the abundance of parts, that’s a lot of glue-drying time. But the actual assembly is little different than sticking a brake wheel into an Athearn blue box 40 or so times. That’s where the patience comes in.
As mentioned, it does depend on your skill level and patience. My first two rolling stock kits were Accurail boxcars: Fairly simple and straightforward to put together. But I still was learning about modeling, gluing techniques, and RRing, in general.
My third kit was a Proto 2000 8K gal. tanker. BIG difference! Took me 8 hrs. to put it together. (Course, I was a pretty ignorant about tankers, as well.) Now, I can do one in about 3+ hours. Others can do it faster but I’m fairly meticulous in my methods. I’ve also done Tichy and Branchline (Yardmaster and Blueprint Series). I like the challenge, and the quality of each car is rewarding to see when I’ve completed it.
RTRs have their place but I still prefer kits, when given the choice and opportunity. [^]
Even when I buy Walther’s passenger cars, I buy them undec, disassemble them, and rebuild them from the ground up. The reason being is for detailing the interiors, adding grabs and so on.
The only thing that I only buy RTR is locos. I just don’t want to mess with trying to detail, paint and decal a Santa Fe warbonnet F7 (just an example). The manufacturers are getting to a point now where further detailing of power is not required. A lot of the new plastic is comparable to some finer brass models. That is a whole other subject, though.
Exactly, Tom, and skill is something that is developed (well, for some of us, patience too), not purchased. Higher level skills are only achieved by practice on ever more challenging projects, whether they be rolling stock, structures, trackwork, electronics, scenery, etc. I’m not aware of anyone just beginning the hobby going from a blue box kit to a Westerfield or Sunshine resin kit in one step. Nor am I aware of anyone having more pride in an RTR car they purchased than an Accurail kit they labored to complete. 'Course, there are a lot of things I’m no longer aware of…
Maybe not yet. But what if you want a CF7, no. 2579? [:)]
Or, like me, an SP&S C425, with its distinctive fuel tank, cab steps, and hood doors that aren’t offered by any manufacturer. It means stripping and bashing/detailing/painting 2 Atlas RTRs, not a project suitable for blue box or RTR modelers – but that’s my choice, and it involves skills developed by messing up a few challenging kits.
My only point here is that the original poster is quite correct in his observation, I heard the same from my 125-mile-distant LHS last Thursday. As a result, my new LHS, for kits at least, will be in Wichita and Milwaukee. Kit builders will have to adjust to what manufacturers offer and hope that resin kits will remain sort of affordable. I agree with Simon that it’s sad at some level.
CF7’s were done RTR, maybe not that specific road number, but they have been done [:D]
Another reason for my protoype and era choice - since I can’t get factory painted locos for all my needs (some switchers, cab units, and GP-7’s are about it), it’s still easy enough to do an undec, since they’re all one color. No masking, no crazy stripes, solid color, plus road name and whatever little other decals I want to stick on. Athearn may save me yet, since they announced factory painted Reading RS-3’s now.
I have purchased a lot of undec kits as there was not a lot out there for the KCS. Many of the projects that I wanted to do, I haven’t had the time, but planed on doing them in the future. Now, detailed KCS units are being produced with DCC and sound installed.
Well here is an opinion from another LHS owner. I don’t see why there is not room in this hobby for both. We’ve had both for years. There’s always been RTR and kits…and both of them are far better today than they were years ago. I fail to understand why any shop anywhere would quit carrying kits.
Everyone above have made good points.
RTR does sell better than kits but kits DO still sell. If I sell 100 RTR cars a month and only 50 kits then I can say RTR sells better than kits…but why would you quit stocking kits if you are still selling 50 a month?
There needs to be a distinction made between “hard” and “time consuming.” I don’t think Proto 2000 kits are hard to put together. I think it may take you three hours or so to put it together. Taking a few hours to put together a kit is called having fun, enjoying this hobby and having some pride and a sense of accomplishment that YOU built it.
Some folks say they don’t have time for kits. I believe them. Why take your time and enjoy a hobby when you can hurry up and get it done? What’s the rush??? You don’t have time for an Accurail kit? Are you sure you even have time to be in this hobby?
Some folks tell me they can’t put together an Athearn blue box kit because they are too hard. Just where does this thought process begin?
Have you ever felt a sense of accomplishment at opening up a box and setting the car on the track? Are ready-to-run cars really RTR?
This store is going to continue to carry kits. Don’t care what the folks with the crystal ball say is the future of the hobby. As long as the manufacturers make them, I will carry them and my customers will buy them. And I imagine RTR will continue to outsell kits…at least for now.
Call me old school if ya want but I don’t see the sense in letting kits and the skills they involve fall by the wayside. Not slamming folks who only buy RTR…but I think there is room in model railroading for RTR and kits unless someone wants to c
Personally I fail to see the problem. Like you said the RTR kits are higher priced but then when you throw in having to buy the better trucks and couplers on the kit the price is a moot point. I know if I buy a bunch of cars at the same time I would much rather have them all assembled and ready to go as opposed to having to build all those kits and put on all those stupid handrails. It basically depends on how much you value your free time. Time spent building a kit is time that could be spent on something else.
One Track Mind,Simple…I know a lot of modelers that switched from kits to RTR and I am one of them…The whys vary from modeler to modeler…In my case I can buy cars and road names that I can not buy in kits…Also I hate car kits with a zillion and one iddy biddy pieces like the Branch Line kits…Why should I build a kit that might require clearing out the holes for those iddy biddy pieces so I can mount them or perhaps break a part while removing it from the sprue? After all for a few dollars more I can save myself that hassle and buy RTR. Not to mention Atlas cars does not come in a kit form.
I still like to build simple car kits like Athearn and Accurail.
Here is a prime example of a car that doesn’t come in a kit.
Yeah, Athearn RTR, two #s still available in warbonnet, neither of them 2579 – why do you think I weaseled the number in? [:)]
OTM wrote:
[:D] Too funny!
OTM wrote:
Well, that’s encouraging, and I hope there are more shop owners who will do the same. What’s discouraging is reading this in Red Caboose magazine ads:
Does that mean every kit from RC is effectively a special order, minimum 10 units? Who determines whether or not RC will continue to offer kits, the modeler, LHS, or distributor? According to my former LHS, it’s the modeler, and since he’s got unsold kits, he won’t be ordering any more. Well, I’d love to buy some, but he doesn’t carry them. So am I now to deal directly with RC at additional expense?
