I’m needing some passenger car expertise and/or suggestions.
I model a small steam/diesel fueling facility and freight station on the New York Central (in HO) in the early 40’s. I’d like to add a small diner to my layout to serve as a plausible canteen for the RR workers and locals. (By small, I’m thinking 40-50’er.)
For clarification, here’s a shot of my modest 4 x 8 layout:
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My idea is to put the diner along the main drag, in front of but adjacent to the larger freight station (upper middle) - either to the left or to the right of the small road that runs perpendicular to the main drag. (Even though this is my preference as far as location, it’s not written in stone and I’m open to suggestions.)
My original thought was to try to find an old dining car (e.g. a NYC&HR) and kitbash it. However, the only ones that I can find that are remotely in that 40-50’ range are the ones pictured below:
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(Actually, with some modifications, the fast mail cars might work well as a diner.)
Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to what kit or kits might work for this? Most everything that is passenger car related is too large - usually in the 60-85’ range. I’m rather limited in space so what I don’t want to do is to overwhelm the layout with something that draws too much attention to it self. (That’s why my coaling tower is only 4" high.) 40-50’ is as large is I’d like to go.
Anyhow, I appreciate the help and any suggestions you migh
None of the cars you have shown are diners, you have 2 RPO’s and a coach-baggage combine.
Unless the narrow gauge lines had some diners, I don’t know of any 40-50 ft diners. If you just HAVE to make a 40-50’ diner I would suggest taking a regular diner and then cutting down the sides, removing a window or two from the kitchen portion and a window or two from the dining area to shorten the car.
Well, I’m not clear…are you talking about having a dining car on a track next to the freight depot, or having a diner shaped like a passenger car on land near the freight house?? If it’s the later, you would probably be better off getting one of the kits available for railroad-car shaped diners, like Walthers makes.
It’s true some early diners were rebuilt from old passenger cars, but many were just buildings made to look like a passenger car. In the forties there was a company (I forget the name now) that made diners that were “ready to use”, with the kitchen, plumbing etc. already installed - you could buy one, slap it on a flatbed truck, and install it where you wanted it and be in business in a few days.
You could also use one of the White Castle kits available, White Castle goes back to the '20’s so would fit in most any era. Or you could go less formal, and use Model Power’s “Bob’s Hot Dog Stand” or something similar.
Try going to www.walthers.com and do an advanced search with keyword “diner” under HO Structures and you should find several kits that you could use…in fact the diners from Imex (353-6104) and Campbell (200-432) look like exactly what you want !![:)]
Thanks, Dave. Yes, I realize that neither of the pics that I supplied were actual diners. However, they do have the general shape and length that I was looking for.
And, I have contemplated cutting down a regular diner, as you suggested. I was just curious if there were any already available in that 40-50’ range that might work.
If you want to get funky, Walthers has their World War II Troop Train Kitchen Car on sale right now. Looks to be about 50’. Cut out a couple of more windows and redo the door and hey, why not.
My thought was to have the diner (made from an old dining or similar car) on land, along the (auto) main drag running through town. I did look at the Walthers diner kit. However, it seemed like it might be a little more modern looking than what I’m looking for. I’d like to have something that looks like it’s been around for 10-15 years prior to my era.
BTW, when did diners first make their emergence? I know that restaurants have been in existance for a long time. I was just wondering, in particular, about the long, “skinny” type that we immediately associate as a diner.
Thanks, Styx. I saw all of those last night in the my new Walther’s catalog. My wife got a particular chuckle out of the “bellybomber” shack. It is an option.
Thanks. I saw and took notice of that one, too. Now, would one of those have been modified/updated into a WWII Troop train kitchen car from a previous or older car - say, an RPO car? If I remember reading correctly, I think those were in the 53-1/2’ range.
A lot of ‘greasy spoon’ diners were built from retired streetcars/interurban cars. A streetcar would certainly fall in the 40-50 foot length range.
Another possibility; cut a longer car down, then put up a brick or block kitchen attached to the severed end. In some jurisdictions, the local code was extremely specific about construction standards for restaurant kitchens. Simply putting kitchen fittings into an existing structure (of any kind) wouldn’t have been permitted.
If you aren’t making an actual dining car then it doesn’t matter, just choose the car of your choice. Most of the diners weren’t dining cars. They were trolleys or coaches as previously mentioned with a kitchen attached. A dining car, especially a very small one, doesn’t have the storage room to support the number of meals a land based diner would support.
Yes, I figured - even with an existiing passenger car used as the foundation - I’d still have to modify it to some extent to make it “plausible”. I like both the ideas of using an old trolly or interurban or chopping one end off a longer car then creating an attached kitchen out of brick. I’ll have to poke around on the Internet to see what kind of pics I can find.
Once again, thanks for the help and the ideas. [:)]
Even a 70 foot HW diner might be too big for your purpose. Why not a real Diner Diner, not a dining car. They were all over the east cost once. Just Google Diner and you will find lots of pictures of every conceivable type and style used as diners.
Terrific! Thanks, Mark! [:)][tup] That’s what I had in mind.
Russell,
The reason I was leaning toward a passenger car-type diner is because I didn’t see anything available commercially that intrigued me. Since RRs were notorious for “recycling” their dead and dying, I thought an actual RR car would add some interest and nostalgia to the layout.
I think I’ll take up your suggestion about googling the word “diners” to see what I can find on the Internet. Thanks again for the help. [:)]
Glad you liked it, Tom. I have a higher resolution copy I can send to you, if you want.
You mention railroads recycling cars for other purposes - the C&IM had a diner in it’s Havana yard callled the “Quiver Cafe”, consisting of a Pullman heavyweight sleeper and a coach. Initially both cars were on their trucks, but they were later placed on blocks. I have a photo of this somewhere, I’ll have a look for it and post it.
I’d look into the Bachmann trolley or PCC cars or the Bowser bodies. They are closer to the size of the diners, and space is precious on your layout. Some diners got pretty fancy with Budd style corrugated siding and such which I suppose could be added to disguise what you are using.
I would suggest again that you go to the Walthers website and do a search on “diner”. [:D]
I think it would be easier to use one of the several kits out there that model exactly what you’re looking for - a passenger car turned into diners - rather than doing a conversion of a passenger car yourself??
A couple of the kits show a car very similar to the pics you provided in your original post:
I’ve been kicking around another diner idea. Assuming that I decide to kitbash something: I could take a regular size passenger car, cut it in half, and place the cut ends at right angles to one another. I’d then scratch-build an entry way that would tie both sections together. Obviously, this would best work at a street corner.
Here’s the drawing of the concept I mentioned above:
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I don’t know if I’ll actually make this rendition of it or not. Even so, it was still fun to draw up - just to see what it would look like. This is a 70-footer cut in half.
Athearn (Horizon) has these former MDC/Roundhouse cars, which are about 50’ long. I’d use a coach, like the one below:
…but use one with a roof like this:
These cars can be had with either roof style, but I think that the coach window arrangement is best for a roadside diner. I’ve plated-over some windows in the first picture, and added some in the second view. You’d still need to add a kitchen area at the rear, and build a closed-in area to support the car. Grandt Line lattice would add a nice detail touch in that area. They also offer this car style, but it’s probably not very useful for a diner.
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