knocking the dust off....literally (getting back into the hobby after 20+ years)

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

I guess that would make me a “DC” only person at the moment, but i’d like to get a new decoder and put new DCC decoders into my old Athearn locos, which, amazingly, still run.

Ive seen a few DCC starter kits from Digitrax, MRC and NCE in the sub-$200 price range. is there a clear leader in the pack at this price range? They also claim to be “modular” so future power upgrades are do-able. Is there truth to this claim?

Im planning on doing a “L” shaped industry layout in a 10’x10’ room…but i have zero idea if that makes any difference at this time.

Thanks in advance.

2

Welcome to the Forum and re-entry to the hobby. I got back into model railroading 5 yrs ago after a long layoff and have enjoyed taking on new things.

I’ll leave it to others to comment on the older Athearn locos conversion to DCC. Some would require isolating the motor from the frame but you can get info here on how to do that. If you are somewhat handy and can handle some soldering you can convert most anything. You might reply with what type and vintage locos and folks can be more specific. One good site for seeing what’s entailed with many loco types (no matter whose decider you choose) is TCS:

http://tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/HO_Search/search.html

On DCC starter systems, I think you will get the most votes for choosing between Digitrax Zephyr and NCE PowerCab. These run about $150-$170. Others can chime in on the differences and expandability. I started with a NCE 5A system, about $400.

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/DCC-Starter-Systems-s/3252.htm

Don’t hesitate to ask any question that will help you out.

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Welcome.

Below is a link for converting Athearn locos to DCC. From a nearby discussion.

You can plug in either eight pin or nine pin decoders.

Measure the stall current at twelve volts DC and buy the proper decoder. Decoder companies show the specs for their decoders.

http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATH90616

Rich

4

That board looks like it may be moe appropriate for much newer Athearn locos than “slowSSer” may have from 20+ years ago. More likely he will have to use a “hard wire” approach with making sure the motor is isolated from the frame.

5

Welcome to the forum and welcome back. I am an old newbie too.

DCC has a learning curve. I definitely recommend getting a couple of the starter DCC books that MR sells. The deal with DCC is you control the locos, with DC you control the rails. I think sound is a great benefit, but not everyone does. Older locos don’t have much roof for speakers and usually require modifying the weight.

Either Digitrax or NCE are your best choices. If you intend to run on a local club’s or friend’s layout, see what they use. Otherwise it’s personal preference vs one is good and one is bad.

With DCC you need more boosters as you run more trains. How many trains can one guy juggle on an L shaped layout in a 10 x 10 room? If you are planning multiple operators, that is another story. Should you need a booster with either system, it is an almost seamless addition.

Your posts are moderated for a while. That goes away once management is convinced you aren’t here to sell us Borat’s sister. I, for one, appreciate the ZERO incidence of spam on this forum.

In Jefferies Trackside Diner, in the General Forum, we are allowed to go pretty far off topic about life as well as our trains.

Three words of advice. Adding pictures is not intuitive. There is a “sticky” post on how to do it. Don’t try to improvise.

Second, if you have questions, give us all the information you can think of, scale, brand of rolling stock, electrical system, etc. “My loco doesn’t run right” doesn’t bring a swift correct answer.

Third pick informative thread titles (as you did here) It makes it easily searchable in the future and attracts the eyeballs who might have an answer to your questions.

TCS makes decoders and have pics of decoder installations. We can also direct you to some online DCC retail places if you don’t have a L

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[#welcome]

Most of the guys on the forum will knock MRC DCC but I’ve been using my Prodigy Advance² since 2006 and never had a problem. It does everything I want or need. I have several different manufacturers decoders operating off my Prodigy controller again without any problems.

I had one DOA decoder that MRC replaced by return mail, no questions asked. Several of my MRC decoders are over 10 years old, all are sound decoders.

Mel

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

Bakersfield, California

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Maybe my knowledge on MRC is internet folklore. I won’t edit my post but I will acknowlege that Mel is one of the electriclal gurus that you can depend on in this forum. [tup]

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They HAVE change, somewhat. Prior to the Prodigy Express/Advanced/Advanced Squared series, the only ‘upgrade’ from one MRC system to another was to buy a whole new one. With the current line you can add the higher line throttle and gain the extra features - although annoyingly the key layout on each throttle is different. MRC prides itself on the small user manual - problem is, it leaves out a lot of the more advanced stuff that you may not need on Day 1 but when you expand the system, the info would come in handy. Perhaps they should release a technical manual for those that do go beyond the basics - but considering their tech support doesn’t know what sounds are in their sound decoders, I’m not holding my breath.

Digitrax has always been expandable since Day 1. Even the original DT100 throttles from 1994 can be used with the latest system (though they are the primary reaso Digitrax has a “hard to use” reputation - with only 8 buttons there are a lot of key sequences and shift key operations that aren’t needed on the new throttles).

NCE originally only had pretty much one system. Since they have released some ‘starter’ systems they adopted the fully expandable design as well so you can start with the smallest system and expand it to the top of the line which pretty much only leaves you with one ‘spare’ part but you can use that to set up a test/program track on your workbench.

–Randy

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Post a picture or two of the loco,s you want to convert if you are not sure.

A visual and an ohm meter will be a help for making sure the two motor contacts do not touch either frame at all.

I have had a loco where the motor had to be isolated from each frame half with Kapton tape and a nylon screw to replace the metal screw.

As was said, instructions in the top of the Model Railroader General Discussions forum.

Many decoders to date have been one amp max but some decoders are good for more.

This may be more than you want right now but replacing light bvulbs with LED’s is usually the way to go.

Athearn has used 1.5 volt bulbs in some locos from messages I have seen.

Yours might be twelve volt bulbs.

Rich

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[quote user=“RR_Mel”]

Most of the guys on the forum will knock MRC DCC but I’ve been using my Prodigy Advance² since 2006 and never had a problem. It does everything I want or need. I have several different manufacturers decoders operating off my Prodigy controller again without any problems.

I had one DOA decoder that MRC replaced by return mail, no questions asked. Several of my MRC decoders are over 10 years old, all are sound decoders.

Mel

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

Bakersfield

11

Hey slowSSer!

Welcome to the forums and back to the hobby! [#welcome]

As far as choosing a DCC system goes, I am an NCE fan. I have the basic Power Cab system and I like it a lot. I also use Digitrax at the club, and I don’t like it. NCE is much more intuitive.

The first thing I would suggest that you do with your old Athearns is clean out all the old grease and re-lubricate them. Even thought they still run now, odds are that things are pretty gummed up. One of the basic rules of DCC is that installing a decoder won’t solve any problems that already exist with the locomotive.

You will have to do some research on how to convert your older Athearns. TCS (Train Control Systems) has a whole bunch of conversion information for Athearn as well as others. Different locomotives require different methods:

http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Installation_Pictures/HO_Scale/HO_Search/search.html

Something to consider at this stage is choosing a standard decoder or at least a standard manufacturer. The reason for doing that is it creates consistency in the way all of your locomotives operate. Different manufacturers use slightly different function arrangements. If you have a mish-mash of decoders like I do, it becomes very hard to remember what commands to use with which locomotive.

TCS decoders are very highly rated. Personally I prefer Loksound Selects. There aren’t too many ‘bad’ decoders on the market these days, but be wary of NOS (New Old Stock).

Cheers!!

Dave

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DCC is one of the best things to happen to the hobby in the last few decades (an opinion, not fact – no flames please). I think you will love it.

Three suggestions for you:

  1. Try before you buy if possible – The big players NCE, Digitrax and the others: CVP, MRC, Zimo, Bachmann etc. all have slightly different designs even though they all work reliably and do roughly the same things. If you can run on some layouts using these systems you can get a better sense of what works for you. If you don’t get a chance to try out a system, not to worry, you can get good performance out of any of these systems.

  2. Go wireless – wireless is awesome.

  3. After getting your system, buy a l

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#1. i’ll have to seee what the LTS (local train shop) has.

#2 seems like a given, even with a small room layout. this was part of the plan.

#3 is exactly what i was planning on doing as well. sound is not a big deal, as i really like the sound of the electric motors, i must admit. though, the idea of bells and running items like ditch lights on newer models is intriguing.

14

I have a Digitrax Zephyr but changed to an NCE Power Cab. I’m assuming that the Zephyr is the Digitrax starter system that you are considering. On my layout I dont intend to run more than 4 locomotives so the Power Cab is enough.

With the Zephyr there is no walk around capability. But, it is capable of handling more additional throttles than the Power Cab. Another issue might be the fact that the Power Cab is a 2 amp system while the Zephyr is 3 amps. Rule of thumb is 0.5 amps per locomotive, so out of the gate you can run 2 more locomotives with the Zephyr.

Another resource you might want to check out is Allan Gartner’s website, wiringfordcc.com. The information is invaluable.

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Yes, this is indeed the case- from perusing what I can, I’ve found out that my SD40-2’s are too old to convert (as in, there’s no chip inside…at all), but my C44-9W actually can be converted via the “hard wire” method.

So, not a complete loss. Maybe i’ll figure out how to keep a lone DC line on the layout to keep them running as a spur/secondairy railroad or something.

Thank you all for the input…and from someone elses post in here, no, I’m not here to sell Borat’s daughter…but that did make me laugh!

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Welcome to the forums and back to model railroading.

I haven’t read all the answers you have gotten, so this may have been mentioned. One of the things the dealer told me to consider was what others in your area have. This allows you to have someone near you that can show you the ins and outs of your system. Also, you can have operating sessions on each others layouts.

I went with the NCE starter set. It is easily expandable.

Have fun,

Richard

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Here is a link on converting a Athearn SD40-2 that is not DCC ready. You need a decoder, not a chip.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/144152.aspx

I did a diesel, not Athearn about ten years ago with shrink wrapped Digitrax decoder. Hard wired. Just had to isolate the motor contacts from the frame halves. I used the 12 volt light bulbs in the loco.

Rich

18

I wasn’t THAT enthusiastic about sound until I bought my Atlas Alco S-2. The sound made me feel like I was (sorta) running a real loco. Since then, almost everything coming in has sound. And I’ve just completed putting DCC and sound into a brass gas-electric.

Now, I admit. Not everything’s gonna have sound. Why, just now I started on putting decoders into my three Athearn SP&S Alco RS-3’s. The models are very very nice. But they ain’t perfection. So I thought I’d just “get 'em running” by popping in decoders.

But.

I love sound. I ain’t going back.

Ed

PS: If you like the sound of electric motors, they have sound decoders for GG-1’s.

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I use the older Athearn SD40-2 non DCC ready locomotives to power my E7s. I install Bowser E7 cast metal shells on the Athearn SD40-2 chassis. The older SD40-2s are real power houses and all you have to do is isolate the motor from the chassis to install a decoder. I have four Athearn SD40-2s with the original Athearn motors using 1½ amp decoders that have never given me a problem. I remotored four old Model Power E7s using Canon EN22 motors and they have 1 amp decoders. Age isn’t a factor for adding DCC.

Mel

Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951

My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

Bakersfield, California

I’m begin

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You can put DCC into pretty much anything as long as the motor doesn’t draw more amperage than the decoder is rated for. In fact, many people remove the original circuit boards entirely to create more space inside the shell. Not having a circuit board originally is not a limitation.

The crucial point is that you have to make sure that the motor leads are not in contact with the frame. Note that I said “leads”. It doesn’t matter if the body of the motor is in contact with the frame as long as the leads are isolated and are connected only to the decoder grey and orange wires.

If you haven’t done so already, get yourself a small roll of Kapton tape and some small dia. heat shrink tubing.

http://www.litchfieldstation.net/product/kapton-tape-12-inch-wide/

http://www.litchfieldstation.net/product/shrink-tubing-shrink-a/

This is great solder:

http://www.litchfieldstation.net/product/solder-6040-rosin-core/

Dave