I am in the process of building my layout and I was wondering what the best kind of wood is to use to build an L-Girder style layout? Is pine OK, will it warp when it dries out? What kind of wood will stay true?
I’ve always used pine. The only time I had a problem with warping was when I used some ‘green’ wood. I never did that again! As long as you use wood that’s been properly dried (almost any that’s sold at home improvement centers) you should be Ok.
I’ve used plain ol’ pine 1x4s on all of my layouts. I’ve never had a problem with them warping. My previous layout was in a garage in Washington State, it stood for 4 years with no sign of warpage. The first section of my new layout is going on 9 months now in my basement here in Utah - no warpage here either.
The one problem I do see is that it is getting harder and harder to find straight pine 1x4s at my local home improvemnet store. The quality of this type of lumber has definitely gone down hill over the past dozen years or so.
Of course, you could always cut them out of plywood, if you have a table saw available.
George
If you glue your L-girders together (I use carpenter’s or yellow glue), the opposition of the grains will help resist warping over time. But assembling L-girders with twisted sticks is beyond my ability.
I have spent a lot of time at the garbage lumber dealers (aka Home Depot or Lowe’s) picking through their stock to find the 4 or 6 reasonably straight pieces I need to make L-girders. Twists, cupping, and boards that curve horizontally when laid flat are all reason to reject a board. Only curves in the vertical direction when the board is laid flat are allowable - and these should be minimized.
After doing this kind of picking, and sometimes going home empty-handed, I know why some folks have turned to ripping their lumber from decent 3/4" plywood (usually easier to find, perhaps at a price). Plywood is more (but not perfectly) stable than lumber. So if you have the tools or the $$ to pay somebody to rip the plywood into boards, that is a good answer. But gluing up plywood L-girders is not as simple as wood boards, either. Plywood is far worse at accepting edge fastening than wood.
Warping is really a matter of the wood unevenly adjusting to the new ambient moisture level. Usually, lumber is kept quite wet until it is sawn. Then it needs to dry evenly to the new prevalent moisture levels, which differ by area of the country, and even by house. If the sawn boards are properly supported while drying, they won’t warp much, if at all. OTOH, we’ve all seen the pretzel sticks that pass for boards at HD and Lowe’s.
My solution has always been to find reasonably straight boards and glue them into L-girders. No problems after that.
yours in benchwork
Fred W
Thanks guys, I never thought about the posibility of using plywood. I have a table saw so ripping 3/4 inch plywood into 3 1/2 inch strips will be easy. I guess using screws will be the method of fasting I will use. Thanks again gentlemen, question answered, problem solved.[:)]
I thought that was the point of making them into L Girders, to prevent and reduce any warping. Start with clear good wood and I’m sure pine or anything else will be fine. There are finnishes you can put on it too that will help. Buy the wood at a good shop and they should know their stuff.
I used pine - no problems. http://www1.webng.com/fortkentdad/benchwork.htm
I have seen that curved lumber in some stores and sometimes the sales people don’t want you to look thru the stack and find the straight lumber. I had one sales person tell me I had to take what was on top or nothing. I simply told him I wasn’t going to pay for a board that I couldn’t use, and if that was the case I would just go down the street and get good lumber, He then let me pick my lumber. I suppose the curved lumber would be fine if you were going to build a BOAT. LOL Good luck. Mike
If it is straight at the yard, it will probably stay straight at home UNLESS you rip it. Buying wide pine to rip down will only work part of the time. The clear lumber does not quarentee a straight board after ripping.
Pont, buy the size you need and get it straint. Stay away from knots.
If you go with plywood, get expensive stuff. The cheap stuff will have holes in the center which can be a problem after you rip it. Also cheap ply will not hole screws in the ends.
Good point about the cheap plywood, I’ve looked through the pine at the local Home Depot and the #1 stuff without knots is very expensive. I would think 3/4 plywood of good grade in the $35.00 a sheet range would work out cheaper and hold up just as well.
While I agree that unwarped wood is the ideal, what’s the problem with a little warping with L-girder? L-girder’s very construction means you really don’t need to be 100% square in any direction. As long as you can get the 1x2 flange on the beam, and you can get a decent connection with the joists and legs, what difference does it make?
It’s gonna be covered up anyways…
Paul A. Cutler III
Weather Or No Go New Haven
What I would worry about is heaving, that an unexpected lift in the roadbed might occur a year after construction or so causing huge headaches.
Use good, quality 3/4" plywood. Rip it to dimensional lumber widths - 3-1/2" and 2-1/2". As for joining them, use biscuits to join and align the 2 pieces. Glue them together and use a few screws while the glue sets. Once the glue sets you can remove the screws if you really want. As with any wood project, pre-drill pilots holes to avoid splitting the plywood.
One of the advantages of L-girder construction is the added strength (and stability) of the L-girder versus a plain board. Comparatively speaking you can span a much longer distance with an L-girder than you can with a 1x4 board. You get both vertical and horizontal stability.
With all due respect to the carpenters, the best L-girder wood is - STEEL!
- Doesn’t warp, twist or take surrealistic shapes, no matter what the temperature and humidity (or lack thereof) does to wood.
- Already comes in L (or equivalent) shapes - no special fabrication required.
- Frequently lighter in weight than equivalent wood.
- Frequently less expensive than a wooden L-girder of equivalent length and strength. (If using steel studs, change frequently to always.)
My under-construction layout has all-steel benchwork fabricated from steel studs purchased at my local big-box home centers. To say that I am satisfied with my results is a gross understatement. (Yes, I use Westcott’s L-girder, “All fasteners up from underneath,” design. Even the fasteners are less expensive!)
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I use furring strips.
CHUCK
Most of my L girder was built in the late 1980’s, using pine, and it is still as good as the day it was built. No warping. Of course, lumber was a little better then. I recently picked some up for a little add on section, and it was so green that all the Irish in the neighborhood came over.
Bob
I agree. The aplication principle behind L-girder is that you can put in cross members and then risers to support the roadbed.
I agree, the portion of my layout that is against the walls is constructed with metal studs and 1/2 inch plywood on top. Now I am about to start the portion that will be free standing and that’s why I asked the question. To make it a little clearer, I want to have the possibility of building an upper section to the layout and I don’t think metal stud add on at a later date is going to be strong enough.
The not quite free-standing table I’m building on at the moment has two staging yards at low level (approximately 38" off the floor,) and is destined to have more tracks at various levels up to 56" (the high end of a continuous 4% grade)
My solution was to make the (heavy-gauge steel stud) legs 56" tall to start with, so the support for those highest levels won’t impact the structure supporting the lower levels. As with all L-girder construction, the legs are set in from the fascia line, so scenery can be built around them on the side which will have non-concealed trackage clawing its way up the mountain.
Chuck (modeling the netherworld of Central Japan in September, 1964 - on benchwork that looks like an incomplete steel skyscraper)
I’ve had consistently good luck with using kiln-dried 1X3 furring strips from my local big-box home improvement store. You can also find 1X2 kiln-dried furring strips. You do have to still pick through them to get best use of what you buy, but I’ve had very good luck with these. For a few longer girders, I’ve used 1X4 lumber for the vertical web, but with careful choice, this has worked well.
BTW, sales people may hassle you at a few places, but picking through the stack is definitely an acceptable practice as long as you restack it so it’s neat when you’re finished.
This is the second post that I’ve heard mention of furring strips, I’m not sure what they are. My guess is they are what we refer to up here in Canada as strapping, sometimes used for putting across the bottom of floor joists in the basement to attach drywall to, am I close in my guess?