But it would seem that do to our wonderful trade deficet that a container ship headed back to asia would be traveling light. Or would this be an incorrect assumption. It would seem to be a logistical problem not just one of being cheaper to buy a new container, but this could be over simplifing the problem.
Well, if it really were 10,000 20 foot containers (what a “TEU” or Twenty foot Equivalent Unit represents, though that could be represented by fewer numbers of larger containers as well), it’s fairly simple; 20 TEUs per 5 Pack well car, about 20 well cars per train (100 platforms) = 400 TEUs per train, or about 25 trains filled to the gills. [:D]
Folks
To properly determine if containers are really going land-bridge, youo need to obtain three items of information. You need the origin, destination and route of each individual container. That information is also propriatary, so probably no one will give it to you.
I don’t have the complete information, but the new super boats are something like 1/3 to 1/2 times larger than the current ones and cost a similar amount to operate and operate at a higher speed. The source was a Wall Street Journal aritcle some years back where they compared costs and needs of customers in Asia, North America and Europe. They also did a quick and dirty look at costs and time on all -rail routes across China and Russia to Western Europe. Their conclusion is that if the railroads could get their act together concerning consistancy, all of the traffic to Western Europe would go by rail and the traffic to the US also probably would “ocean bridge” across the North Atlantic.
Also, the most consistant interchange and classification method in use for containers is the Rubber Tire.
I just got back from Eastern Washington last week and the BN’s High Line is operating at capacity, and in the three days I was at Ephrata, I was staying at a place where I could directly observe train movements, I saw only one train that was not 100% TOFC/COFC. Every siding had a meet but nobody parked anywhere. A dispatchers nightmare and a train fans heaven. The North Bank was also filled, but mostly with Unit Trains of grain and manifest trains. About 1/3 TOFC/COFC. The South Bank was jammed so badly with the tunnel fire reroutes all the way from Hinkle to Albina that it looked like a 200 mile long yard with the track all being switched from both end all the time. Road power at both ends of the trains, no helpers required anywhere – crazy.
This is a good thread, Mark. I had been thinking about it when I was “out”, and observing the traffic flows. BTW, about 1/2 the old hump yard
I worked for APL in '90. As I remember APL was responsible for the stack trains. So Asian shippers got a package deal. Deliver containers to APL in Asian ports and APL handles ships and trains from there. It might have been a loss leader for APL but I don’t know if Land Bridge was more than a concept or experiment.
Maybe a dumb question, but why landbridge to New Jersey? Assuming the ocean carrier is the customer and they’d rather have the container on their ship, why not a Gulf Coast or S.E. U.S. port? Other advantages would be less vandalism and no need to move it through Chicago.
Mark,
What led to the demise in using the Toledo, Peoria & Western to get around the Chicago bottleneck? Looking at a map, the advantage in utilizing the TP&W seems obvious. I am sure there is an obvious reason why the TP&W’s old phrase of, “traffic moves faster through Peoria” no longer holds up, but it is lost on me. I thought the road would be the natural recipiant of some of the above traffic and investment to secure it.
The fact that this hasn’t happened shows me that I have a lot to learn.
Thanks,
Gabe
Mark, your gateway descriptions are generally accurate, but I think St. Louis could be of some future interest to BNSF and the eastern roads for true transcon double-stack trains. The distances fron LA to NY via BNSF - Chicago and BNSF -St. Louis are very comparable. The Avard, OK to St. Louis route has capacity and is in reasonably good shape. The St. Louis gateway has been rationalized substantially, and provides an alternative to Chicago. The route would not be a speedway, but double-stacks don’t require that.
Maybe a solve to the problem of empty containers is to asses a storage fee, and when it is not payed, confiscate the containers and sell them for scrap if they cannot be reused. Or, like coke bottles, charge a deposite payable to a returner. This might raise the cost of shipping, but it could also pressure foreign manufacturers to lower their prices.
Mr. Hemphill, I just wanted to add that all of this is very interesting and educational and dare I say cool! and, It seems you have spent an afull lot of time and energy to assemble this knowledge, and rather than dribbling it little by little on forum pages, MAYBE YOU SHOULD WRITE A BOOK! I would gladly be one of the first in line to buy it!
Keepem’ rollin’, John
[#ditto]It’s like this: If he writes one, I’d buy it,[yeah] read it [tup]and say I remember him when. Who says that nice guys[;)] don’t finish first[?]
I always wondered why there are so many cans being hauled on flatbed trucks. When I was an owner / operator trucker, I spoke with a trucking company that was going to set me up “draying” empty cans between rail yards and ports. That’s all I would have done.
I sold my tractor, but still haul cans as a company driver for JB Hunt out of Chicago. In addition to emptys piled up on rr property, there are many depots around Chicago with thousands of emptys stacked on acres of land. Take a drive north on Cicero Ave from I-55, towards BNSF Cicero yard, or 47th st west off of I-94 just past NS 47th st yard (at your own risk!) and metal mountains are everywhere.
I am a former railroader (Conductor, CN - Southbend sub) turn roadrailer. This thread is a great find for me, as I just started my search for more info about intermodal operations, hoping I can get out of the drivers seat and into a computer chair doing work in intermodal operations. All posters ('specially the honorable Mr. Hemphill!) are feeding my desire fire for information. THANKS ALL! I hope I can find more time away from the rubber tire road to read more posts!
Switchman Cam, OVER!
Land Bridge was also used intially as a sales feature. The benifit of using Land Bridge was that the carrier would send you one bill for the entire movement. Prior to that a shipper would get bills for each segment of the transportation, warehousing at ports, customs, etc.