Well, I read the MR Laying Realistic and Reliable Track and liked the suggestion to use plywood, followed by camper tape and then cork roadbed under the track. This method does not use any nails but depends on the use of adhesive for each layer.
The article recommends and shows a picture of DAP Acrylic Latex Adhesive Caulk Plus Silicone. I searched for that product. The closest I can find is DAP Acrylic Latex Caulk Plus Silicone. Note that the word Adhesive is not in the name. Also, when I read the info on the tube it never mentions that it is an adhesive and not just a sealer. OK I know I am nitpicking. But the author of the article made a big deal about getting the right product because he tried others and had problems. So, I want to know if anyone else has glued down their track and roadbed and what worked or did not work for them.
Yes, I tend to really check things out before I move forward but I don’t want to be pulling this stuff back up later because I was in too big of a hurry.
The 2 previous layouts that I built were built using extruded foam and I used whatever cheap caulk I could find. I laid a bead on each side of my track centreline and then spread it with a plastic putty knife. I then laid the cork roadbed and pinned it in place until dry. Once dry I laid another bead of caulk, spread it and then laid the track in place, held down with pins and weights until dry. You only need a very thin layer of caulk or it will squeze up through the ties making it difficult to remove before ballasting. The layout I am building now uses plywood subroadbed and I only used the caulk to hold down the cork roadbed. I nailed the track down with track nails. Once it is ballasted there will be no movement and no excess caulking between the ties. Hope this helps.
I have used several varieties of latex caulk to assemble my right-of-way, and (so far) all of them seem to be working.
The environment is a non-climate-controlled double garage in the Dessicated Desert - temperatures range from subfreezing at dawn in January to 120 degrees (F) at 3 PM in August, while humidity is usually in the single digit range. Starting at the tops of the risers, my subgrade is plywood, with a layer of thin foam (fan-fold underlayment) and a cardboard track template (sealed with paint) under the flex track ties or the wood ties on which I assemble hand-laid specialwork. All are assembled with caulk - any color under the foam, grey under track template and ties.
Some of my trackwork has been in service now for close to five years, with no problems that I can blame on failure of the caulk.
I don’t use cork roadbed - it dries out and starts to crumble after being baked through a couple of Mojave Desert summers, and this layout is intended to last me for the next thirty years or until I die, whichever happens first. Likewise, I have questions about the long-term durability of camper tape. I DO know that duct tape on the handles of some garden tools stored under the back patio roof is showing definite signs of deterioration after five years or less.
I laid the track in the early stages of my layout like this. When it got wet while doing the scenery, the glue let go and some of the curved flex track in the curves shifted. When the glue dried, I had some radii that were a little tight. Ever since then, I’ve used acrylic latex caulk.When I wanted to make changes in the track, I just used a putty knife to gently lift the track.
You can find it at any home improvement or Ace Hardware store for $2/tube. It’s inexpensive, holds very well, comes in a variety of colors, has next to no odor or nasty chemicals, and begins to set up in 45 minutes. (I usually let it cure overnight or for 24 hours for good adhesion) I use it for bonding to the following items:
foam → foam
foam → cork
cork → cork
foam → wood
foam → plastic
As mentioned, it holds very well. However, if you need to alter or change something, a wide putty knife and some moderate but steady pressure enables you to pry the two pieces apart with very little damage to either piece. If it isn’t obvious by my description above, Jim, I really like the stuff. [tup]
At our HO scale club, we fasten all roadbed and track with latex caulk and have had no problems with it adhering to sound board, styrofoam, or flex track. We use bricks to hold items in place while the caulk sets.
You can even get DAP in various colors now, too. To glue down the black Woodland Scenics foam roadbed we use black caulk, and for the track we use gray caulk.
The CLEAR Latex caulk works much better than the colored latex caulk. I have used both, and both work, but the clear sticks better whereas the colored does come loose sometimes if under stress.
I mark where the track goes, run a bead of caulk, then spread it thin using an artist palette knife. Press the track into it, then add weights to the track to keep it in place until it dries.
All the layouts I built since the mid '50s used track nails to hold the roadbed and track in place. However, in building my current layout, I thought I would try caulk. So, I bought a number of tubes of Dap latex caulk - without silicone and washable/paintable. These are pretty inexpensive, and there is no need to get the “fancy stuff”.
I laid out track center lines and ran a bead of caulk on either side of the line and pushed in the cork roadbed and secured with pushpins (buy a bunch - they are cheap). After a day you can remove the pins, run a sandpaper block over the roadbed, and you are ready to paint and/or lay track.
The laying of the track was a different matter. As my subroadbed is plywood, I decided to retain the use of track nails in securing the track. It works, has instant “hold”, and they can easily be removed without damaging the track or roadbed. So, I did not use caulk for the track.
The kicker in this is for those using foam. My personal opinion - and I won’t argue the point - is that the layout’s base should be wood. Foam is fine for scenery outcroppings, but not the support of the tracks.
That being said, I realize there are folks that foam works just great for them, and in those cases the attachment of the track almost has to be caulk or some kind of adhesive. I guess the best advice for this is to cover all the track base, but use a thin even layer so it doesn’t come up between the ties.
I have used DAP adhesive caulk and an OSI product that comes out white and dries clear. I have not used a caulk with silicone in it. The main thing I look for is water based clean-up. A bead of caulk can be spread out with a spatula or one of those fake “your name here” plastic credit card “blanks” that come in the junk mail.
As to whether the caulk needs to be an adhesive caulk, my hunch is that we are not really making much use of the adhesive qualities of the caulk (nor the sealant qualities for that matter) and as long as it has any kind of sticky qualities when wet and fastens to the ties and roadbed when dry, it should do the trick.
I work in the construction/remodeling and historic restoration business, and I have been using adhesive caulk to lay track for many years now.
I prefer the OSI product or the “Polyseamseal” brand. Both contain no silicone and are stronger than the dap product. They are also thicker and less messy to work with in my opinion. Both are usually readily available at Lowe’s, Home Depot, etc.
Both are fully paintable, come in clear, which is better for track laying, and dry quickly allowing faster progress.
I use Homabed roadbed or solid sheets of homasote for yards, etc. I do not like the foam idea, even though many say it works well.
Jim, I am presently building my NY&LB double track main line using the camper foam tape on plywood topped with cork. I have been using DAP Kwik Seal Plus kitchen and bath adhesive caulk from Home Depot with excellent results. You need to use the clear. It comes out white but dries clear and almost invisible if you spread the caulk thin, which you should. What’s nice about it is that if you need to modify any trackwork later on, it comes up pretty easy without destroying everything. It works on the camper tape, cork and track. It’s also waterproof.
Check out my layout site to see how I use the stuff.
I may be a new railroad modeler but I am an old hand with adhesives/coatings. It’s my day job.
Regarding clear versus colored adhesives, it can almost always be assumed the clear version of a product will have greater adhesive strength than the colored version. Pigmentation addition is the difference between the two obviously. Pigments, with a few exceptions, degrade adhesive qualities of the overall system as they have no adhesive qualities of their own. Any adhesive relies on the ability to “wet” the surface. Pigments also require wetting. Therefore, pigments consume some of the adhesive’s wetting capability making the adhesive less capable of wetting the contact surface. The viscosity of the adhesive also plays a huge role in surface wetting. Light bodied adhesives like CA naturally wet surfaces well because they flow good. Caulk, on the other hand, is a heavy bodied material so as not to sag on vertical applications. Because caulk has such poor flow characteristics it must be assisted with mechanical pressure (spreading with a knife or finger) to wet the contact surface for proper adhesion.
We are probably splitting hairs with the differences between colored and clear caulk adhesion, but at least know there is science behind why clear caulk sticks better.
PS there is a lot more to the story so don’t equate clear caulk to superior caulk. Only with respect to adhesion is clear caulk superior.
I find that any inexpensive acrylic caulk does a good job, almost too good. But what I like about it is that it provides the all-important dual-density layer between the subroadbed and the ties. This helps tremendously to keep the rails quiet. Hard ballast can undo a lot of that initial good, so I think a softer adhesive in the ballast is a good idea…matte medium, for example.
Prying flex up from a light film of caulk isn’t so bad, but it isn’t exactly a walk in the park, either. That is a bit more adhesion than I would like, but if it is what it takes to get tracks to stay put for a while until I can ballast them, so be it.
I use the Polyseamseal brand clear, it was always the cheapest at Home Depot, but that doesn’t seem to be the case anymore. Doesn’t make a lot of difference as you don’t need that much (someone siad 2 CASES? I hope they have a BIG layout, as my old 8x12 layout with double track and yard and all that used only 2 TUBES to complete). I save the stuff with silicon to caulk the windows and doors. Maybe the mixed stuff doesn’t smell, but pure silicon caulk smells BAD while curing. Pure latex, no smell.
I just visited your Web Site and finished reading your photo essay on how you are building your layout. Only two words can describe it. SOME LAYOUT! I await with bated breath the conclusion of your story. Good luck on the remainder of the layout.
Also, please let me offer my condolences to you and your family on your loss of a family member.
Thanks Blue… yeah it’s been a tough couple of weeks here, but things are getting back to normal. I’ve found that working on the layout is good therapy. Anyway, I hope I was able to help you out.
I’ve used Liquid Nails for Projects (also very common in hardware stores)
This stuff bonds better than latex. However it isn’t as workable, or as flexible when cured. It’s also harder to spread thin. And you pretty much have to give up on salvaging track if you want to take it up.
Tom (Tstage). I’ve used two cases of it. No complaints and lots of praise.