I have read in many places that 30 inches is what people consider the maximum depth for a layout from front to back. There are even a few active threads right now that say this.
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I have to question this as good advice. I know if you are taller you can reach further, and if you build the layout lower you can reach further. This makes sense.
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I am 6’ 7" tall, I am pretty much near the maximum for a human. Well into the top 1%. I built my test layout 36" from the floor, again pretty much near the minimum to be considered for layout height. I also built it only 28" deep.
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So, I am super tall, layout was low, and it was less than 30", and I still had trouble reaching into the rear of a scene and working on things for time. Painting the backdrop was a test. Installing roadbed and track along the back was rough also.
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As we get older, I am 50, should we reconsider the maximum depth of the layout?
Some times you need deeper for some reason like a loop but I found the ideal depth after much testing for a single route to be 19", went to 24" on last layout because the whole thing was double route. Now sure I could reach farther but to do good work you need to be comfortable and to easily reach what you need to. This also means you need to have any tall foreground items to be removable so that you don’t damage them when working on stuff.
LION tried a along the wall layout with a 36" reach. It was ok for the first level, but as I built up I could no longer access the staging yards that I built at the rear of the 36" table. I finally had to get a cadre of 20 or so monks to come up to the train room and lift the tables and move them 24" from the walls. Now I could walk around to the back, which was still a major PITA.
I still have those 36" tables on my gnu layout, but I put them side to side making a table 6’ across. Of course the middle 3’ is the donut hole with nothin in it at all (except junk stored on the floor). I am only using abut 2’ on either edge. The back edge (The arm pit of the layout) has six levels of track (and five subway stations). People really never go back in there to see what is happening in there. With fourteen miles of track they get enough entertainment standing where I intended them to stand.
To me, an important layout design principle not understood by many newcomers is the benefit of varying benchwork depth rather than having a constant depth everywhere.
This provides reduced reach except where more depth is specifically needed and reduces the amount of benchwork and scenery that must be constructed. In most of my designs for clients I have been able to limit the 30” reach to a few critical locations and opt for shallower benchwork elsewhere.
I’m 6’2” and my layout is at 36” from the floor. 26” is my max and that is difficult around scenery. Years ago I bought a Topside Creeper and that helps a lot but my max on it is about 36” comfortably and it gets to my back if I’m stretched out on it for more than 30 minutes at a time.
It does get me to the center of my layout, couldn’t get there with out it. To do detail work in the center like ballasting around a turnout I have to remove things and crawl up on top.
I cut a piece of 2” foam to fit the center and put a piece of plywood on it to prevent me from dinging stuff.
Mel
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
I am convinced, now about 13 years into the hobby, that I can reach 30" into a scene…provided it is no higher or lower…this is important…than about my navel. If I have to reach into a scene much below my belt line, or higher than my sternum, my reach is reduced. Think of your two working levers, spine and arms, that have to work in concert for a deep reach. You must bend, and then reach. If you must bend, and bow, and then reach, your reach suffers. If you can only bend a bit and then reach,…
I’m building mine at 48in high, I like the view. All but one table is 24 wide. That puts the rear track at about 18from front.I can reach that fine untill you add buildings and trees. Any kind of ‘‘work’’ back there is an issue,and I’m building it with that in mind.
My home layout is a true shelf layout that varies in depth from 18" deep to 27" deep, with the height varying from 48" to 55". When operating the view is great. However to work on the backdrop or scenery, I built a wooden platform (box) 24" long by 15" wide and 8" high made of 2" x 6" wood with a carpet attached to the bottom so as not to scratch the tile floor. If I need to reach even higher or farther into the layout they make plastic kitchen 2 step stools.
Here is how I plan accordingly. I used a stool to bring the layout to navel level to work on the back of my 30" yard at 50" high. That worked pretty well.
Selector brings up an important point. Too low is just as bad as too high. It is commonly said that the lower you build the layout, the further your reach goes - but that’s only true up to a point, assuming you need both hands and can’t rest one arm on the layout as support. You get too low, and what WAS a comfortable lean with your waist or so leaning against the fascia now becaomes a situation in which you are unstable and overbalanced. The extreme case would be a layout just above knee leveal, you lean way over - maybe stand on tip toes for that extra little bit of reach - and your feet fly back and you land face down on the layout.
I have decided that I like 42" as a “base” or lowest elevation with much of trackage being 4-6" higher than that. That height, combined with deeper scenes, is more visually pleasing to me.
As stated before, I tried the narrow shelf and double deck thing, I lost interest because of the visual aspects before I could even complete it.
Its not that I like deep shelves, but they offer so much some time. So I have been thinking of several solutions that I hope will allow me to work on deeper scenes/structures.
This particular step stool…
[QUOTE] Interestingly I already had in my possession a special step ladder that will allow me to climb a couple of steps and reach over to the back sides of the upper deck tracks. Turns out it just does just fit under the bottom deck at 40 inches off the floor. And it has a built in ‘handle’ that can be used to grip or lean against when accessing that upper deck.
I just have to make sure I build the lower deck shelf high enough to accept this ladder.
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Place most of the scenery and structures onto ‘gatorboard slabs’ that fit into recesses on the shelf. This will allow for these individual structures and scenes to be removed from their ‘spots’ on the layout, and taken down to workbench level to be fu
Well, no one’s saying you can;t make layout scenes 7 feet deep if you want, just that it will be physically impossible to reach it from just one side. Something extra wide will require access hatches to get to the back part. Something that is say 4 feet wide but has access on both the front and back is no problem as all as the longest reach would be 24". Many ways to skin a cat (sorry Lion) here. Make it no wider than a comfortable reach. Make it twice as wide with access from 2 sides. Make it any width, with access hatches. Make it any width, with some sort of sling system so you cna ‘fly’ over the layout in some sort of harness system - just make sure you know what you are doing with ropes and rigging before attempting something like that.
I think I missed trying to explain what I was talking of here. I was referring to providing a ‘foundation board’ for the structures that would allow them to be taken off the layout, worked on, then replaced in their designated spot.
I much prefer .060" sheet styrene for foundations, and buy it in 4’x8’ sheets, as it’s useful for many other things, too. Simply make an open box in the size and shape of the structure’s footprint. Brick buildings would sit directly atop it, while most wood and metal buildings would overlap the foundation slightly. If you use solvent cement to assemble the foundation, allow it to harden fully, then file or sand the corners to make the joints invisible. You can also add a styrene floor to strengthen the entire structure or where a floor is needed for interior details, as in the first photo below.
I don’t like to permanently glue my buildings down, but it is a problem getting the foundations to look right unless you glue ground cover or dirt, in place, right up to the edges, which effectively also glues the building down. The solution is to make what I call “footprint boards”.
The first photo shows preparation for my added wharf scene by scraping old ground cover off with a putty knife. The second photo shows a footprint board that is made by carefully tracing the building base outline on a scrap of wood (1/4” plywood in this example). Cut the board out and sand the edges smooth. The next step is to wrap the board in saran wrap.
Good thread on the ‘removable buildings’ subject here,…
[QUOTE] I am putting all my buildings on bases that include surrounding details like sidewalks, people, cars etc. Once a year I lift the entire scene off, take it to the workbench, and give it a good dusting. At the workbench I can be more careful of dusting around the details, and if I do knock something off, it is easier to glue it back in place.
Originally, I glued buildings down on the layout, but it quickly became apparent that cleaning the dust off was going to be a problem, vacuuming never gets all the dust off, I use a soft brush, like a shaving brush to dust everything.
I put plugs in for the wiring for lighting so it can be removed easily. Sometimes the base has several buildings all on one piece. The edges of the base can be hidden in the scenery along the edges of tracks or roads or by simply throwing some grass over it and leaving the grass loose.
One thing that I would try to do different next time is to make the bases a standard size, that way I could swap out scenes with different ones.
This is how not to build a layout. The width of the town is 7’-6" wide. The aisles are 19" wide. None of the buildings are glued down. When I was 30 something this was fine. Now that I am a lot older, it is a royal PITA.
To work on anything towards the center of town, I have to remove buildings that are nearer to edge of the layout so I don’t break them. And I have to work off a small ladder. Back-breaking.
I also have to turn sideways to get through the aisles.
Hopefully, when it is finished, I won’t have to do anything in the center.
