This is the third discussion topic that I have started. The first had to do with DCS and reverse loops. The second had to do with addiction. This has to do with my daily progress on the construction of my HO layout.
First, I opted to use MTH locomotives and controlers.
Second, I am using Atlas snap track code 83.
I began by building a 4x8 table. I used 2x3 to frame the top and 2x4 for the legs. I use a 7/16 sheet for the top. Finally I applied a 1/8 sheet that is very smooth on top of the top. I then added a second 4x8 table. I then added a 14x18" extension between the two tables and the tables overlapped by 2 feet. I then added a 2x4 extension at the end of one of the tables. My table is 14 feet long by 10.5 feet wide. It has a 4x4 cutout on the top left corner.
I then got AnyRail software to plan the layout. This turned out to be a godsend. I am a printer and I have a printer that can use 24 inch continuous rolls of paper. I printed out my whole layout on 5 very long sheets of paper that I will afix to the top of my table before I start laying track.
I should mention that I knew nothing about HO before I started this. AnyRail is learned in minutes if you are comfortable with a computer. The blueprints are dead on accurate.
I did at least 1,000,000 on screen layouts before I settled on the one I will use.
I had to resolve the issue of designing a reverse loop using DCS equipment first. I decided to use a standard DC reverse loop and wire it so that the polarity on the loop track reversed when I manually activated a remote switch. I don’t advise totally automating reverse loops with DCS.
I also experimented with some actual track to design a double track crossover. I will have 2 of these and 2 reverse loops in my layout.
Each double track crossover uses 2 Atlas 563 and 564 Custom Line turnouts, 1 atlas 572 crossing and 2 524-2 tracks. They also use 2 584 and 2 585 remote switch machines. It only took me 1,000 hours to fi
As was established in one of the Original Poster’s other threads, he is using DCS, not DCC. Return loops are handled much differently, not in the automated fashion of DCC.
So I printed out the entire layout and took it down to the table and put the five 14 foot long by 2 foot wide sheets together and it was something to see. I could have left it like that and called it art. It was impressive. I’m think ing you could do wall murals like this.
Then I noticed that on one side of the table the track was going to be very close to the edge. I had planned for 3 inches from each edge and this was only 1 inch. Then I discovered that the 18" x 14 expansion that I put between the two 8x10 tables was actually 16"x14.
Thankfully at that side of the layout there are 3 loop sections. They could each be reduced in length equally and the problem would be solved. I took 3" from each segment’s straight track and the problem was solved with an extra inch for good measure.
The sheets I printed all have a 3"x3" grid on them. I just cut along one of the grid lines the entire 14 foot length of that section and slid the section over the next adjacent section to the next grid line on that section.
Translated, I could have really botched the entire project before I even started laying track because I “forgot” that my table extension was 16" wide not 18". All I can say is I’m 70 years old.
Anyway I started laying track and it is coming along. Once I have it all layed out on top of the paper I will remove the paper and fasten the track to the table. I’m planning on using a foam roadbed.
The AnyRail software is incredible. Aside from printing out the entire design at whatever scale I want, I can also print out a detailed information sheet that has a list of all the track parts and total lenghts of all track segments.
So assuming I remember how to find my way to the basement I will have more to report next time. There was a time that I could keep numbers in my head without a problem. Now I need to write everything down. I keep learning this over and over. Maybe I’ll get a clipboar
I assembled one of the reverse loops. In the process I learned that physically making a loop is a challenge.
I use a turnout. After you enter the turnout there is straight track. Then you begin a 3/4 circle that reverses it’s direction on the last quarter and comes back into the turnout. I’ve done this but no matter how I do it, there is a slight misalignment of about an eight of an inch that can be compensated for with the circle segments. My circle is 44" in diameter so it has ample give.
So can someone tell me if there is a name for this kind of a loop and is there a perfect formula for aligning the track?
It’s hard to know for certain what is happening without seeing your track plan.
If you have connected a right-hand curved section directly to a left-hand curved section (or vice-versa), this creates an s-curve that can be unreliable. 22" radius curves are a bit tight for some equipment and the S-curve can create problems. Some combinations of different equipment might not run through without derailing.
The best solution is a straight track of at least the longest car or engine length between curves in the opposite direction. This might require a redesign, of course.
Or I may just not be understanding your description.
That’s not atypical for sectional track and is the reason many modelers use flextrack. Alignments vary with different choices for curve radius and turnout.
Thanks. You clearly understood what I was saying. I am surprised that I could not find a simple resource for what segments to get for a loop like the one I did. The same applied when it came to the double track crossover, but on that everything appears to be dead on.
That’s probably because it varies so much with different combinations of turnouts and curve radii. Atlas numbered turnouts don’t match up exactly with sectional curves in many cases. (Snap-Switches do, but they have such sharp internal curves through the frog that they limit the kinds of equipment that may be used.)
If this is your first time to design a larger layout, it might be a good idea to post an image here for others to see before you lay track. Often CAD allows one to draw things that won’t work well.
I have great pictures I can post, but I don’t know how. Someone on another post offered advice and I guess I should read that and try. I think I need to have some kind of hosting service where I could upload the picture and then link to it. Problem is I don’t have any service like that.
I hate to be a party pooper, but I looked at your layout plan and I don´t think it is a good idea to build the layout as you have planned it. You are not going to be happy with it - unless you just want to have a couple of trains circle the layout (for which you don´t need a digital command system), which gets rather boring in a very short time.
Furthermore, you will encounter tremendous reach problems, even with that man hole right in the middle of it.
Here is your plan:
Before you start to invest big money, do yourself a favor and do some reading - there are plenty of books for beginners around that will help you make a good start!
You are correct if this were for me. I am building this with my grandchildren. Two twin boys age 4 and a girl age 6. The idea is to teach them how to get from one place to another. They need to learn how to operate switches. When they have that down I’ll put a second locomotive on the layout and they will have to learn how to coordinate with that in the mix. They also are learning how to connect track and wire it.
We will do things slowly and incrementally. We will also be building different structures out of cardboard and other things to decorate the set. We can change that as the seasons change.
When they get older if they are interested in pursuing this then we can design something more to their interests and likes. The entire layout can be easily taken apart and redesigned at will. I wanted the reversing loops because it will add a level of difficulty and make it less boring.
This is all about learning, taking responsibility and pride in accomplishment for them. If they learn this as I think they will they will be doing something far more constructive than otherwise.
I started them out on a large G Scale setup. They loved it and it was basically just a figure 8. They could start and stop the train and reverse direction. We would stop at places and put figures in the cars and take others out. We had an engineer, a conductor and a station man.
Different strokes for different folks - especially small folks. You have to learn to crawl before you can walk.
Before I cut the manhole out there was definately a problem. With this design I can get to anything without a problem. There is a bit of a stretch for the one reverse loop. In the future we can cut in other manholes as needed.
The only reason this got to be the size it did was because I wanted 2 reverse loops.
The basic level of most of the questions you’ve been asking indicates that you should be accepting more of the advice offered than you reject, but in any case you really need to heed this piece:
Both of your reverse loops have S-curves that will very likely cause derailments. It is made even worse by the fact that the S-curves are out of reach. Those grandkids are going to lose interest quickly if their trains keep falling off the track where they can’t reach them.
I wasn’t aware I had rejected any advice. The S-curves may indeed be a problem and I will only find that out once I test them. If they are then I will replace that segment of track with flex track so I can get a more gradual turn.
I am doing this in stages. First I plan, then I test, then I make corrections as needed, then I test and so on.
The children will never be using the trains without me. I can definately reach the S-curves, but if that proves to be a problem, then I will cut in some more manholes.
I am working on the theory that if I design and test and build this properly derailments will not happen. I could be wrong about that. I’m not in any rush. I plan on dong this over the course of time with the children. This is about providing them with a creative and educational experience. Correcting mistakes over the design and testing stages is part of that experience. If when all is said and done they end up with confidence in themselves and pride in their accomplishments, then I will have succeeded.
I put the current manhole in after I got some advice on that from another model railroader. I settled on the reverse loop design after getting a lot of feedback from others on this forum. I am posting here because I want advice.
This is correct. But if you truly believe this why do you ignore a professional model railroad designer (cuyama) that is explaining proper design to you?
There is no need to test and learn everything for yourself the hard way. There is literally hundreds (maybe even thousands) of years of experience here on this forum willing to help you learn from their mistakes.
I have actually taken Cuyama’s advice and have added a short piece of straight track to the s. If that doesn’t do it, I will try the flex. Whether I take advice or not I will test everything. That’s my way. If I don’t test, I don’t learn. I am not a robot. The idea here is to teach my grandchildren. You can learn a lot from a failure. There’s something to be said for the journey. There’s also something to be said for the fact that I don’t personally know anybody here. I don’t know who is telling me what. I just take it on good faith - its not dogma.
