I’ve spent the last month seriously debating a time, place and even specific line for my layout.
My layout needs to have two things- a two truck shay engine, and buildings from the late 19th/ very early 20th century. We’re talking old west style buildings.
Originally, I was going to go with a 4-4-0 american or even a 2-6-0 mogul.
Now I am having second thoughts, and even considering going with a 2-8-0, along with a two truck shay.
I want to have two lines on this layout.
The shay would occupy half the layout concerning specific logging/industry op, while the other locomotive would deal with transportation.
My big question is this- Do any of you (possible) rail road historians know of a state or line(s) during the turn of the century, where both logging and transportation were popular?
OK, I know this could be really anywhere. But seeing all the layouts in magazines like Model Railroader makes me realize I need to have dynamics and a re-creative factor on my layout. I want things to make sense!
I guess in closing, does anyone know of some sort of data-base where I could find out more about specific train lines? I don’t know where to begin in searching for lines where shays and 2-8-0’s shared the rails…
Western Maryland Railway had both Shays and Consolidations. I don’t know how or where the Shays were used. You could search on the web for historical societies, etc. for information.
I don’t readily know of any RR that had logging and commercial transporting together. MAybe out north west or North East {Like Maine}??
BUT, You could have a freelanced {or prototyped} logging industry sub/customer which would haul the trees to the main line and a freelanced {or Portotyped} RR as your main railroad, carrying off the goods. This is the way it generally worked for most prototypes…the customer brought the goods to the main RR and the Main RRs took on the “goods” to pass to other RR customers, such as mills, ro lumber dealers, or to paper plants.
Or you could make your own totally freelanced system and just be freelanced about it. Remember a “Model”, by Webster’s New American Dictionary definition is a representation of something, not necessarily an Exact miniature copy of something.
Sometimes freelancing OR “protolancing” {based on partial modeling or a RR with some quirks orf your creating} is the only way to enjoy what you mostly want in your MRR. Remember : It’s YOUR MRR, run it the way you want.
Do a thorough google search for “Shay Railroads”, “Shay locomotives” “shays”, “logging railroads” and see what you come up with. It may lead you to a RR that did just what you are talking about.
Generally, to find information on prototypes, you have to search for data on a specific prototype. You can spend a lot of time doing this, and it’s very fun and rewarding, but perhaps not how you’d prefer to be spending your time. All the sources I know of that cover multiple roads have far too little detail on any one of them for your purposes.
Sounds like you’re getting into a bind because you’re trying to faithfully model a prototype, and there may not be a prototype that has all the features you want.
Rather than get tied in knots trying to find just the right prototype, you might consider the “freelanced” prototype, or “protolance”. Either make up a fictitious line, or make up some fictitious operations or branch of an existing (or historical) line.
This is what I have done on my layout. The Valley Railroad historically was a minor branch line, with most of the New Haven’s traffic going over the Shore Line. In my “universe” the Shore Line has been wiped out by a (historical) storm, and the NH management has judged it too exposed to further damage to repair it, thus sending the traffic over an expanded Valley Line. This allows me to run passengers and freight through a geographical area that historically only had a couple of slow freights a week in the era I’m modeling.
As long as you have a plausible history and enough knowledge of real railroads and how they operate to run yours in a realistic manner, there’s no reason why this approach can’t “make sense”.
A few come to mind: Not logging, but Union Pacific operated 2 shays on a mining branch in Utah, Southern Pacific ran logging trains out Of Weed and Leaf, Ca. with standard road power, Western Pacific did so as well for a brief period, so there is precedence for what you have in mind. Myself I model the SP and although i’ve to date confined my efforts to the moving of citrus in a branch line setting, for my next effort, i’ve considered incorporating a logging branch, only finished lumber will be transported and a single spur should do nicely, I have no desire to actually model the mill, but imply it exist somewhere.
The more ambitious logging railroads (at least in the West) would seek out and attain common carrier status. The trade-offs were significant. If the line spanned more than one state, the 1893 safety act applied, and knuckle couplers and air brakes were required. If wholly contained within a state, state railway commission rules applied. Common carriers usually had to provide some form of passenger service. But common carrier status gave the line the ability to obtain critical right-of-way through condemnation. And common carriers could readily interchange with other railroads.
Another common aspect of West Coast logging was the combined use of rod and geared locomotives. Geared locomotives were used on the steeper grades, usually back in the woods, where rod locomotives were at their worst. But the slow speed of geared engines made a long run from the woods all the way to the mill impractical. Rod locomotives running at 25 mph were much faster than a geared lokie at 10. So where the mill was more than 20 miles but the grades were steep in the woods, a rod locomotive would round up the loads at the transfer points and bring them the rest of the way to the mill. This was even more likely where the mill was served by a common carrier, but a logging company or subsidiary of the common carrier owned the rails in the woods.
Rod engines up to 2-8-0 still exist and running, served Pickering Lumber Co at Standard, CA (standard-gauge Shays) and West Side Lumber Co at Tuolumne, CA (3 foot gauge Shays)
Both Standard and Tuolumne were lumber mill towns - raw logs came out of the woods, sawn timber was shipped out on the Sierra.
The Sierra’s steam shops at Jamestown, CA are now a state park. - and still maintain steam locos.
Just for the record, “old west style” buildings don’t necessarily represent late 19th Century, early 20th Century buildings. Buildings in the “old west” (and cheesy cowboy movies) represent “old west style” buildings.
Here are some small town buildings from Texas dating from the 1870’s-1900’s:
If you go to larger cities, you are talking 6-8 story brick buildings.
I found a loco graveyard in the lumbermill company town of Camden, TX about 1968.
I rode behind a 2-8-0 or maybe it was a 2-8-2 in 1965 on the common carrier Moscow Camden and San Augustine 7 miles from the mIll to the Southern Pacific interchange at Moscow. Steam had been previously retired serviceable and was put back in service when the one diesel needed an overhaul.
15-20 years earlier, the company used Shays and other lightwt locos on its logging tram lines tro bring logs in from the woods, and more conventional 2-8-0s etc (i.e. rod engines) on its common-carrier connector line. You could model both sides of the mill, and even the SP connection with some first general diesels.
Here’s a couple of other thoughts to add – the southern Appalachains in North Carolina. The ET&WNC (Tweetse) was a NG common carrier, that connected with several Shay powered logging roads. On the other side of the mountain, those same logging roads connected with the C&NW (Carolina & Northwestern, not that “unknown” road from a small town in Illinois). C&NW was a standard gauge common carrier that merged into SR.
Further down the mountains is the SR Murphy Branch. This was a branch of the SR large enough to be a railroad in its own right. There were a several Shay powered lines connecting to it, including the Graham County which ran Shays alongside SR diesels.
New Hampshire. The old growth timber didn’t get logged out until the 1920’s. Numerous logging lines with geared steamers moved raw logs out of the woods to sawmills. The Boston and Maine picked up the finished lumber from the sawmills. Lincoln NH would be a typical example back around the turn of the 19th century. Consolidations were in widespread use just about everywhere by 1890 or so. The 4-4-0 Americans stayed in service into the 1930’s. The 2-6-0 Moguls stayed in service until the end of steam in 1957 on the B&M.
